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A Seattle Update: Black & Brown Relations
Not That Kind of Relations, But It's A Start
Welcome and good day. This Columbus Day weekend, I rediscovered a favorite past time – watching TV. It felt amazing to just crash on my love seat for a few hours and watch a few movies and old TV shows. During my veg out session, I was lucky enough to catch an old episode of NY Undercover. For those that don’t know, this show was one of the original Dick Wolf series from back in the ’90s. It featured a Black and a Latino detective who solved various crimes throughout Manhattan. And it’s a lot more intriguing and riveting that how I’m making it seem. But, that’s another story for another day. Most episodes touched on a bigger issue that was plaguing New York City, urban America or just people of color as a whole. This episode was particularly interesting because it touched on a topic that still rings true today – Black & Brown relations.
In this episode of NY Undercover, there was a Black gang and a rival Latino gang in the middle of a turf war. They both lived in Harlem, about a block away from each other, shared some similar experiences, but were battling nonetheless. The moral of the story was how Blacks and Latinos should be unified, since we share the same space and, more often than not, the same struggles. Sounds familiar right? Which made me think – if this episode still rings true over 10 years later, have we really made any progress?
In college all the Blacks and Latinos hung out, but there was a clear divide at times. While we were from the same areas, the Latinos often segregated themselves. And the Blacks did it too. Which is cool, every one likes to be with their own people. My specific beef was when Latin dudes would use the word “nigga”. It would boil my blood because these same dudes didn’t identify themselves as Black. And they shouldn’t, it’s a different culture. One of my boys would often use the word “spic” when they would say “nigga” just to compensate. It made for interesting scene.
Another dispute was women. I had another friend who often dated Latinas. A lot of Latinas. No shots, I went on my own adventures. As expected, he got a lot of dirty looks and side comments from Latin guys whether he was with said women or not. They weren’t alone though, my boy got a lot of criticism from Black women too but that’s nothing new. It all helped to show the clear divide between with the two people. Even though we chilled together, were from the same neighborhoods, and were friends, people still viewed the other racial group as “them” not “us”. There really was no collective or unity.
Sure there were a few males and females that crossed lines with immunity. They weren’t looked at or judged by their race, but by their character. I thought that was where things would eventually progress post-college, but it differently is not.
Today those same divisions I spotted in college are apparent now, but just on a much bigger scale. There’s still the dating problems, still the racial identity conflicts, but I’ve noticed it more in politics as of late. Many Black voters wondered why their Latin counterparts weren’t supporting the then presidential candidate, Barack Obama. The implied unity quickly dissipated and suddenly there was a spotlight thrown on how our cultures and religious values differed. They’ve continued to be apparent in smaller elections too. And it’s not just on capitol hill, it’s in the streets as well. Ask anyone from Southern California and they’ll tell you the deal. I’ll let them fill you in, this post is getting a bit long for that discussion.
It’s true that Blacks and Browns are quite different, but at the end of the day we’re still struggling to do the same thing and facing the same racism. Like most people of color are. But that’s been said for the past 10-15 years, it’s probably been said before that and it’ll most likely continue to be discussed. Will this ever reach a point of concession or will folks continue to walk different paths to get to the same goal?
Seattle – Si. Arroz con Pollo y Una Bonita Por Favor - Washington
32 Responses to “A Seattle Update: Black & Brown Relations”
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“These same dudes didn’t identify themselves as black. And they shouldn’t its a different culture”
I have big problems with that statement. 1st off it kills me when latinos don’t identify themselves as black…riiiight. Yes you are black. You may not be american black or west indian black but boo you are black. It drives me insane when latinos try to separate themselves so distinctly as to say there’s something absolutely wrong with black folks and I will not identify with that. Screw you!!! They need a lesson on the african diaspora and what that even means.
Back to the quote…I understand when u say culturally….there are SOME but it just makes my skin itch thinking of how some latinos go so hard to say they have nooooo black ancestory- MY ASS!!!!
Now I’m upset…good day..one more day till I get to eff seattle for this post!
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CHeeKZ thinks this post is directly related to Streetz DR Vacation Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 9:15 am
well……
Not all Latinos are a part of the African Diaspora . Just b/c you came from a place where there were African Slaves doesn’t mean one eff your grandmother.
I know some people who are part of the African diaspora deny it, but lets not act like Slaves went around piping everything on the block in Cuba between shifts on the tabacco hacienda
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Peyso Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 10:04 am
I was just fittin to say this…
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Seattle Washington Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Happy to incite a riot.
OK. Well since my West Indian brethren already made a comment about your African diaspora statement, I’ll tackle the other part that’s shaky to me.
In my opinion a cultural identity is different than genealogy. You’re right, some Latinos can trace their roots back to Africa, but that doesn’t mean that they’ll identify with it culturally. Shoot, I can’t identity with the Ghanaian culture and that’s where a lot of Jamaicans came from. Does that mean I should treat myself as if I’m Ghanaian? I know a lot of my Ghanaian friends would say otherwise and I would say no as well. I’m proud to be Jamaican. That’s the culture I grew up with. In addition to some others…
Also, Latin culture as whole is far different from Black culture. Let’s not get into the specifics from each region or even country. So yes, if they can’t identify with Blacks culturally I can understand that. However if they’re denying their background, that’s a different story. And a lot of races do that because at the end of the day, we all originated from Africa.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Good points SW! But at the end of the day, whether you are from Trinidad & Tobago, Barbados or Senegal you still identify yourself as black point blank period. The culture of the two Carib countries I mentioned are different from Senegal but they will identify with being black. (Note: for Trinidad I’m not all Trinis are black because of their Asian/Indian roots. I’m referring to Black Trinis.)
I have friends who are Black Panamanian and Honduran who are still very Latin but they are very well aware that they are black. I think the ‘stigma’ of black scares some Latin cultures or it is looked on as an extreme negative. I hate to call out a group but Dominicans are the crème de la crème for this particular area when it comes to being called ‘black’ even though they might have hair as nappy as mine or encompass the same pigment as the Prince of Darkness. No shots or disrespect, but just speaking from personal experience and as a witness.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:59 am
In addition, I try my best not to use this word constantly but one irony I can’t get over but I got to laugh at it. There are some Latins that would rip you for calling them black but they use the word ‘My N****’ like if they were featured in a Wu-Tang interlude…
Just a funny thought
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CHeeKZ Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
I got no problem with Latinos using the N word. I thought it was a NY thing.
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Streetztalk Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
I dont have a problem either. i have a problem with latinos who are black who swear they aint and use it.
Newsflash:if you’re my complexion, you have african descendant somewhere swag surfin in your gene pool
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Lala, I know what you mean to some extent. I have dominican friends much darker than me that get SO offended when I call them black. I had to google race one time to prove to them that Hispanic was an ethnicity, not a race, and that their race is indeed Black. It does frustrate me that they think their Latin heritage puts them one notch up on the totem pole, despite their black skin. When in reality, that might be true in our society for white latinos, but to every other pinche gringo, they’re n*ggas.
On the other hand, I disagree that ALL latinos are of African decent. There are some that clearly originate from Europe, and some (like myself) that are native Americans. So tho you have a point, its not true for everyone. Neither here nor there.
Anyway, it sucks being in the middle of the black/brown debacle. Mexicans hate black ppl sometimes more than white ppl. Its frustrating cuz I know for a FACT that the 2 cultures have a lot more in common than they wanna admit. And that white ppl hate mexicans just as much – sometimes more – than blacks. Damn reproducing border jumpers.
But I guess we/they will never give up that one little notch on the totem pole of slightly lighter skin and straight hair for anything. Its sad really.
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had to say Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 8:48 am
I just had to say,
Mexicans didn’t jump borders, the US redrew the lines…
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CHeeKZ thinks this post is directly related to Streetz DR Vacation Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 9:20 am
they got their @$$ kicked and lost their land.
Pre-UN it was perfectly acceptable to beat someone up and take their land. The US has nothing to feel bad about. You lose you move. Those were the rules. They would have done the same to us.
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Wow CHeeKZ. Does that make it okay?
“They would have done the same to us.”
The only reason they didn’t was because of the distance and the heat. So they stole us instead.
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Peyso Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 10:06 am
That makes it perfectly acceptable actually Miss Jenkins. You can only be judged against your peers…
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CHeeKZ Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 10:13 am
With War comes violence to civilians and countless loss of life… for that I am sorry to the people of Mexico.
But you are a nation… Nations go to war. It self serving of us to go back in time and judge a nations action in this age of diplomacy.
**CHeeKZ does not support all actions done in the interest of America or its assests. Such actions unsupported include but are not limited to genocide, corporate takeovers, actions against the economic interest of latin nations and the armed protection of american based companies abroad.
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Rox Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Didn’t the US take Mexico from Spain? Like CHeekZ is saying, these lines were drawn ages ago – we need to better sense of the present.
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CHeeKZ Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Naw Mexico.
Shout out to Pres J Polk for signing in Texas, getting us New Mexico and Arizona, and California.. without which we would have No Roscoe’s Chicken and Waffles or Beats by Dre! Where would this country be without the leftcoast!
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Until folk realize they we’re doing just what the powers that be want us to, this chasm between us will continue. Minorities don’t stick together in this country, period, we believe what we see on tv 9 times out of 10 about the other.
Truth be told, the Black folk that I know who complain about Latinos ‘takin jobs away’, ‘how they get that house’, and making jokes about how many Latinos live in a house and other such nonsense are the laziest mofos I’ve ever seen. I think these are the Black folk who have gotten complacent and don’t think they have to work for what they want only God in Heaven knows why they think that).
My ancestry is culturally diverse I’m not more one ethnicity over another. It’s just stupid to me that people who have the same or similar history want to fight each other instead of making the two stronger…smh.
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I think that the divide between the two groups stem from how we were all brought up, culturally. We are alike in many ways and share common experiences, but our struggles aren’t always the same. Large numbers of Black folk don’t have to deal with being told today that your people can’t vote because you don’t speak English (Good job, Iowa). I think mutual respect for differences will serve us well.
But I do know that we all love some good, well seasoned food. I went to DR this summer, and damn I was happy. My people (Black and Latino) sure know how to cook! I ate so much good pork. Plantains or platanos, rice and peas or arroz y habichuelas. It all tastes good to me! (pause)
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Streetztalk Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:01 am
THIS
When i went to DR, I spoke to the locals (respect my espanol game) and we spoke on Haitian/DR relations, light skin dark skin, and culture. From what i gather, it’s definitely cultural, but you can see the influence of colonialism and the divide.
Some of them told me the light skin/dark skin thing isn’t as serious, even the Haiti vs. Dr thing, as they’ve started to get over that. When you have languages, and political barriers hindering you, along with national pride, there will always be some sort of bias.
We just have it programmed in us that light is better… its promoted all around us in all corners of the world, but the smart and unbiased can see the difference.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Light skinned bastard.
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Streetztalk Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Streetz Se Puede
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Dimples Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Streetz,
I do agree that the country difference is a big deal between DR and Haiti, however I do think that the skin color issue is very prominent. As a Haitian visiting DR a couple of years ago, I was more conscious about my skin color than my ethnicity. Everywhere I went I was called Negrita, which I soon came to find out was a term of endearment meaning Black girl. Although it was supposed to be something nice, I was offended at how many times my skin color was pointed out to me. So I think from my experience, the skin color issue was more of the problem, I guess because you can’t tell that my ethnicity from just looking at me but you can tell my skin color that was why it was more of an issue.
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Streetztalk Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Dimplez,
I cosign, but they see it as more of an exotic thing. Over here pointing out race is taboo and touchy. over there its a way of life, how they find common ground. Sheit they call each other that without malice.
Skin tone is stil relevant. Skin bias aint as bad as before
btw, I c u Ayisien!
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SwDee Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
@Streetz,
i bet the dominicans you spoke to were light skin!
relations between haitians and dominicans have not gotten better over the yrs, if anything it has gotten worse. dominicans are one of the most racist people i’ve ever met… i’m dominican (light brown complexion i guess) and even i feel awkward when i visit!
i’ve even develop a dislike for my sister because of it. she’s light skin, her mom is dark skin… and she wants to stand there and talk about how she doesn’t like going out in the sun for too long, cause she doesn’t wanna get prieta!!!! (derogatory for dark) SMH!
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Streetztalk Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
It was a plethora of people and they told me both sides of the coin so settle down negrita
lololol jk
I cosign with you though.. that shyt is deep rooted in history. I think theres positive movements though.
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To make a correct..I didn’t say all latinos…I understand that some came from europe. I only have problems with the people who look like u just shot a bullet through their chest as they deny african heritage up and down like there’s no way. Seriously.
I wasn’t make a wide generalization about all of them….hmm that’s called something….
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I think this whole issue stems from two things:
#1) Not wanting to be the lowest on the proverbial totem pole. Remember after 9/11 when people of Middle Eastern and Western Asia descent became lowest on the totem pole and even black people hated them? Same shiznic here.
#2) As a group of people, both groups are trying to be as close to white as possible. Not in skin tone or culture but in everything else.
I’m interested in seeing how latino fill out applications where they ask your ethnicity and your race.
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Once Latinos can realize that there is African blood running through their veins too and accept their heritage, and not only embracing the rape of their Europeans ancestors side it will be “a little bit” better.
just my thoughts
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:31 am
US got a point….
Like the Metallica song….’It’s Sad But True’
(Note to Seattle & Rightcoast: don’t judge me on the music selection. It’s an expansive selection.)
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I’m late, but as a product of Black & Brown relations, I feel obligated to comment. Latinos did turn out to vote for Obama though they preferred Clinton. The relations may not be unified as one would hope to see, but I feel that division is only more pronounced on a individual level. As a collective, the divide doesn’t seem quite as chasmic.
As for Latinos accepting their Blackness, well, I have some words concerning that, but it’s late. We spend too much time detailing what separates us, what our dislikes about the other are, etc, instead of uniting behind our similarities. Stereotypes abound about either culture, and I think we all do our part to prove them to be falsehoods. Why promote & expound the stereotype of another culture who is also in the same struggle that you’re in?
Anyway, thank you, Seattle, for writing this.
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There needs to be a Blk & latino in america special on CNN, ABC, CBC wherever (or north america if the interest is there)…no one discusses this topic and as a result there is all kinds of confusion, pain, denial and most importantly an unnecessary divide. I am not of hispanic background but my boy Claudio periodically posts on Dominican/blk issues and its a very good read, check the latest one out:
http://www.liveabovemediocrity.com/la-familia/dominican-chronicles-vol-4-the-black-guy-issue/
Cant we all just get along.
My only issue is that hispanics need to stop coming up to me speaking Spanish..sure I nod like I understand but I lost you at hola.
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Ok… So why is there this mixing of being black culturally and having dark skin? Like seriously… Just because a latin individual gets dark in the sun doesn’t mean that person SHOULD do anything. It’s crazy because “Black” has two implications (skin and cultural) and they are interchanged at convenience. Being “black” in one way doesn’t make you “black” in the other way. The “you’re still black” rebuttal doesn’t make any sense.
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