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Can Minorities Be Racist?
Miss Jenkins note: This post is about some of my thoughts on racism. Please don’t misconstrue my ideas about any particular race or another. I believe that all people, regardless of race or ethnicity deserve the same respect. We are all God’s children. Now, let the racy conversation begin. No pun intended. And shout out Dr. O for inspiring this post.
Last Monday, the confirmation hearings began for the soon-to-be first Latino Supreme Court Justice, Sonia Sotomayor. Some members of Congress expressed concerns about a speech Judge Sotomayor made in 2001 and alluded to her being “racist.” First and foremost, I must note that her line about Latina women being “wiser than white men” was taken grossly out of context. As I listened to fears that her experiences as a Latina would negatively impact her ability to be impartial and apply the law fairly despite her record to the contrary, I was brought to a basic question that I have debated for some time.
Can minorities be racist?
I was having a conversation with a White colleague once, and in response to a statement I made about Elvis stealing Black music because it was better than his own, he responded, “Whoa. Isn’t that a bit racist?” He was implying that saying Black people made better music than Elvis was racist. Of course, I disagreed. At that point it became clear to me that how people define “racism” or what it means to be racist varies greatly, between Black folk and White folk, and within the minority community as well.
What is racism?
Or what does it mean to be racist? For me, being racist is about continuing a psychological and behavioral pattern that has been linked to a particular power structure in this country. Racism isn’t just about believing that one group of people are inferior to another. To me, for racism to be real, beliefs and practices related to one group’s sense of superiority over another must persist in institutions and power structures in society. So based on this country’s illustrious history, racist attitudes and racism can only originate from White institutions and people. In other countries, their history may tell a different story. With that said, I do believe that minorities can be prejudiced as all hell, and equally ignorant in our assumptions about people who don’t look like us. But for me, to label a Black person or another ethnic minority as racist, doesn’t rock with me. Why not, you ask?
Because a “racist” opinion held by a member of a minority group will not set White folks back.
Example: James Blackmon calls Tim White out of his name, and says “Tim, you will never amount to anything because you are naturally inferior to me.” Let’s say James even goes so far as to keep Tim from getting a job, soley because of his race. There is no doubt that James is wrong in this situation. No, its not right to degrade people for any reason, or prevent them from moving forward because of your personal beliefs. However, if the situation was flipped, I don’t think the effect would be the same. Yeah, Tim would feel bad about himself, and would have been done wrong. He deserves some recourse for that. But Tim wasn’t told something that has been continually and systemically reinforced for generations. While James may be ignorant and closeminded in his views, he is not reflecting an attitude that once persisted and was actually practiced for centuries, with its effects arguably still persisting today. So is James a prejudiced jerk? Yes. Is he racist? I’m not so sure.
I’m going to stop here. I have purposely left out a bunch of topics because I didn’t want yall reading 2000 words of my amateur conceptualizations on racial theory. Do you think minorities can be racist? What is your conceptualization of racism? Can minority groups be “racist” to each other, or does it have a different label? Let’s have an honest, and respectful discussion.
Miss – ::Right fist in the air:: - Jenkins
75 Responses to “Can Minorities Be Racist?”
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I like your mini-dissertation and I think I see where you’re coming from, however in order to have such a discussion we first have to agree on the definition of the word. Saying that you see racism as this or that does not override what it actually is. If we all have our own definition of the problem we can’t really get very far.
From what you wrote, it seems that you are defining racism more by it’s effect than the beliefs or acts that describe it, and in that case I would agree that the effects are not equal all around. Does it make more sense to apply the harsher term (racism) to white people and a milder term (prejudice) when it’s non-whites committing the same acts? Again, we’d have redefine the word, but I don’t disagree with the sentiment completely (deep down where no one is looking.)
At it’s simplest, racism being intolerance of another race, hell yeah minorities can be racist! And it’s kinda scary how obvious that answer seems to me.
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Suitcase Streetz: The Fresh Prince of Palm Beach Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 9:27 am
I cosign this 100%. I feel you on the idea of racism ‘Stead, but we all can be racist. I dont think Blacks in this country have the propensity to APPLY said racism, that don’t mean ninjas don’t try!
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:36 am
I disagree with you here b/c Tiff’s feelings stem off of the academic definition of rascism. I’m not saying that academia is always right or even right right now but I do think that that institution should be what we look to when there are discrepancies in sociological terms
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ASmith Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:38 am
I agree that we need a common definition. Defining racism is half the problem when it comes to dealing with it.
As for considering prejudice a milder form… I think racism is prejudice is action and thus they’re not really two sides of the same coin as it would seem if one were really a milder form of the other. However, I think minorities tend to be more prejudiced than racist because they aren’t always in a position to act on said prejudice in the way those in the majority are.
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My definitions of racist is applied to any group that holds a blanket opinion of another group. That being said, I do think any group can be racist towards another group, including Caucasions.
BUT I do agree with your point being a racist opinion held against a Caucasian is not going to hold him/her back.
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In my opinion, racism is an individual thing nowadays, especially with the removal of most forms of institutionalized racism in western culture. Determining racism based on past actions and mindsets removes personal responsibility for ones outlook. Minorities can be (and are in many cases) racist. Racism involves believing a persons race makes them superior or inferior, regardless of what your race is and what their race is. I think the difference is that it is more socially acceptable for minorities to be racist, which is understandable given the history of minorities in America. Whether it is socially acceptable or not, however, a racist is a racist whether they’re black or white.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 8:08 am
“In my opinion, racism is an individual thing nowadays, especially with the removal of most forms of institutionalized racism in western culture.”
Has institutional racism really been removed?
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Reecie Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 9:15 am
same thought I had. I do not believe that institutional racism has been removed–but I do agree that it may be more socially acceptable for minorities to be racist. By your definition (Tiff) I do agree that we do not have the power to hold back/oppress, regardless of our beliefs or actions toward other races.
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ASmith Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:40 am
Co-sign the question.
Overt racism is a relative thing of the past (though it is SURELY making a comeback these days); it’s institutionalized racism that has been harder to overcome because it is covert and not always easy to identify and prove…
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Ironman Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 8:28 pm
When I say institutionalized racism I mean things like the repeal of Jim Crow laws. It’s no longer illegal for a black man to be taught to read. It’s no longer illegal for blacks to drink at the same water fountain as whites. “Institutionalized racism” is not covert racism, but it is racism that is supported by the institutions we live and work in. Now that we have institutions dedicated to ensuring diversity, I think it’s safe to say that institutionalized racism is over in the west. Sure, there will still be country clubs turning away black kids, and you’ll still see stories of racial profiling, but those individuals don’t have the support of the law, and no longer have the moral support of the majority.
I think it is also an underestimation of the power that individual minorities hold to assume that any prejudice against the majority would not affect individual white people. A white teacher under the leadership of a black school board in PG County is going to have a difficult time if anti-white sentiment abounds. The fact that we have “reverse discrimination” suits being filed in areas of the country mean that some members of the majority believe they are being negatively affected due to people in power over them judging them based on race. I believe in the united states, we have been so conditioned to think of minorities as the under dog and as the inferior that we are not able to fully accept that minorities are no longer minor in the power we can and do hold. Our president is half black. I’m sure any racism on his part would be damaging to whoever it was directed against.
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Hmph.
I used to hold the same opinion of racism as you Ms. Jenkins. In fact, I was taught in my Sociology of Race and Ethnicity class that that actually is the social definition of the term racism – “a systematic practice of discrimination or hatred toward a group of people that hinders members of the group’s ability to achieve equality in a society.” So in this case, racism cannot be from black people because we can’t (generally) hinder white people from achieving anything. Same with sexism not being able to come from women.
Yet as I get older (and as society changes), I realize that this may be the “social” definition of racism (and all the other isms), but racism is not just a systematic thing. It’s also a personal thing.
Just because I got called an “educated nigger” by some honky redneck cracker jack in Alabama a few weeks ago doesn’t mean that all of America (though I can’t make the same statement for all of Alabama) is racist. But I can say THAT mofo was racist. Only he didn’t prevent me from anything, and his ignorant, non-GED having, can’t spell his own name, inbred country bumpkin @$$ was a mother freakin racist. Dang why did I get my blood boiling thinking about that man again.
Anyway, in the same way, we can say that at this very moment (may change in the future), blacks cannot be systemically racist, we can most certainly be individually racist. I actually think the example you gave with Mr. Blackmon and Mr. White IS an example of individual racism, especially given that he refused to give him a job because of his color. I mean that might even be considered systematically racist (for that company, anyway). To deny anyone anything solely on the basis of skin color is racism.
Now all these euphemisms of prejudice and discrimination sound nice… But ehhhh. They’re different words. If I see a Mexican (everywhere in TX) and say “He must not speak English,” that is prejudice cuz I’m pre-judging him before I know anything about him. That’s the thought. When I say “Actually, we do not have any landscaping or housekeeping positions open for non-native speakers,” that is discrimination because I’m now taking action based on my assumption. But when I hear him speak perfect English and show me his more than qualified resume, and still say “We’re not interested (because you’re a dirty Mexican),” that ish is RACIST. No matter what color I am. Period.
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Disclaimer: Since
the racistsThe Man has blocked me from taking it three ways at theplantationjob, I can just say my piece this morning and won’t be able to respond until this evening. I hate that I’m missing out on what will be an enriching discussion and I apologize for not being able to respond right away.I’m with you, Sowhatiff, that minorities can’t truly be racist. And if we’re talking about semantics, well, there ARE several official definitions of the word that support both your views and views of those that believe racism can be held by minorities. It’s the comprehension of such definition that makes the viewpoints so different, but no one is actually making up their own definitions. Especially in this day in age where one can just rush to dictionary.com or any other online dictionary (I like onelook.com where it lists all kind of dictionaries at once) to support their argument. So just “making up” a definition nowadays is moot.
Racism is racial intolerance, but it is also listed as thinking another race is inferior to your race. It is also defined as “discriminatory” based on race (or religion). I think the word in and of itself is so stigmatized that no one wants to be labeled it, but on the other hand they can toss it out so easily to someone else.
As much talk about Black folks making themselves “victims”, I think 2520s toss out the word just as much as we do nowadays, if not more. They’re making themselves out to be a victim, without the actual victimization. It’s like a victim contest and it’s disgusting.
Simply put: The oppressed can’t be the oppressor. Sure one can “think” that they are superior, but what is that thought unless you can prove it in actuality? Worthless, that’s what. It’s been said time and time again that we’re not really in a “position” to be racist…well, we’re not.
As for Sotomayor, yes, her comment was taken so out of context, it became an entirely different statement that what she intended. She’s right, with her personal experiences, she’d probably be able to make a better judgement that affects people that have been in similar situations. Every person in a position power makes decisions on things that affect people they’ve never came in contact with or situations they’ve experienced personally. They just didn’t verbalize it. It’s impossible for a leader to empathize with everyone they serve. The White bigwigs who make decisions that affect minorities living in poverty have never been a poverished minority, just as the Black bigwig who makes decisions that affect white suburbia has never been a white suburbanite.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 9:34 am
“Simply put: The oppressed can’t be the oppressor. Sure one can “think” that they are superior, but what is that thought unless you can prove it in actuality? Worthless, that’s what. It’s been said time and time again that we’re not really in a “position” to be racist…well, we’re not.”
Co-sign.
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Ok, before I answer the question, let me say this…
Some white people will always cry racism when a person of color pokes holes in their images of white privilege and superiority. Your comment about Elvis was all about stripping away the white privilege of being able to steal from others without acknowledging it, and your co-worker was offended that you dare suggest a bastion of whiteness in this country was not only musically inferior to black artist, but stole from these black artists to reach his pinnacle of success…b/c obviously your co-worker had never heard of such a thing…
Judge Sotomayor’s wise latina comment would have barely made a blip on the radar if she had not included the part about white males. See, it’s the white male part that is causing the problem, and the idea that a wise latina could be (1. wise, and (2. wiser than a white man, and (3. reach a better conclusion than said white man. The audacity of that woman!!! In that one statement, she incinerated the idea of white male superiority, and the white privilege of being able to be wise (smart, intellectual, a good judge) without having to prove it. For some white people, superiority in intellect and wisdom is automatically assumed b/c they are white. And to question that superiority is racist….
As to the question, can minorities be racists…I agree with Sowhatiff on this one. I believe both historic and current issues of institutionalized racism (Philly pool case, anyone?) have caused us, black folk, to not just be prejudiced against white people, but also prejudiced against those who aspire to “whiteness” and all of the white privilege that goes along with it. Similarly, I think other racial minorities are prejudiced against black people, and each other, based on the way they see white people treating these groups.
Just a few of my thoughts…I have more to say, but it’s to head to the gym.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 9:59 am
its going to be a long day on the blog today. People are writing thesis papers in the comment section and it takes forever to get through 6 comments. but everyone has some really good pts and comments.
I completely disagree with your Sotomayor’s wise latina comment. I’m going to try to be short. Being objective is an art and one underused skills in society. When reading court decisions I often become emotional or inspired by a judge’s ability to incorporate so many factors into his decision. Often times he or she may fail and miss glaring points. However, when a judge uses past life experiences (things off the bench and without judicial precedent) to factor into his/her decision he fails. Because the decision they are decided is not one they have dealt with in the past.
Even a white male judge should not be using life experiences to decide a case. It goes against the very concept of justice being blind, and has nothing to do with which race she belongs to. poor comment for that line of work.
And plz save me the arguement, well white judge in the past… Someone poorly doing their job is no excuse, for you to poorly do yours. Judges shouldn’t be deciding cases with statistics in mind.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:09 am
Its kind of unfair and silly to think that people can be 100% objective. People are products of their experiences, no matter what. Some do a better job than others of stepping out of the box of their own life, but that doesn’t happen all the time, in all situations. Judges are people too.
All the beef about Sotomayor’s objectivity assumes that White men can be more objective. Just because they aren’t minorities or women does not make them any less susceptible to using their past experiences and beliefs (and subconscious biases, etc) as a spring board for their decision making. Its only an issue because she’s a Latina, but white male judges have been doing it for years. Because its “their system” no one calls them on it.
Do you really believe that justice is blind?
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:48 am
Tiff….. I’m still not buying it. I have killed Alito for his comment. I have killed Henry Brown. I’m actually sided with the very same article that Sotomayor references in her speech.
She mentions that justices that she considered wise had made poor decisions on sex and race discrimination cases. However, she is working on an unproven claim that the poor decision comes from a lack of experience instead of a lack of precedent.
Just b/c the judges uphold something doesn’t mean he is upholding that institution, it only relates to the context of the claim. Sotomayor’s claim of multi positions in the speech show a streak of an activist judge. Not bashing her.. just really disagree with the speech.
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N.I.A. naturally Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:12 am
Actually, if you take a look at her judicial record, Judge Sotomayor has not used her past experiences to decide cases…she follows the law. That is something that was pointed out by a few Dems during the hearings, and completely overlooked by Repubs who chose to focus on a few lines in speeches…which does not point to how she is going to rule on the Supreme Court…especially when all they have to do to find that out is look at her record. The continuous questions about her speeches were a waste of time, and was very “soap opera” like….
The “wise latina” comment shows that she, along with Alito, and several others, bring their experiences to the job, because you can’t help but bring who you are to work with you everyday. The difference is being able to put that aside when it comes time to make a ruling of law. And her record shows that she has done that. She hasn’t always sided with minorities or women just because she is a minority woman. In fact, she has frequently gone against plaintiffs in discrimination cases. She is much more moderate than people think….
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:36 am
naw Nia, don’t do me like that. I co-sign that 100% yeah she has been objective in her decisions. I thought I said that… but it was her comment, and judicial committies have been using off the bench work to decide rule on judges for years. I think she will be fine, but that don’t make the comment correct. the comment was poor.
but you and Tiff are wild’in with bringing stuff into your job. Maybe you can’t be objective, but that doesn’t mean other can’t. Some of us have a switch were we turn off the emotions and look at what is in front of us.. does everyone have it? no. Has every white judge have it? no. Does Sotomayor hae it? I think so, but that comment clearly pts otherwise.
Justice is blind, she just not always the one making the decision. Flithy humans are.
“All the beef about Sotomayor’s objectivity assumes that White men can be more objective….but white male judges have been doing it for years.” Find me that white judge that says his opinions are better b/c he is white. plz? Sweetheart, what you are saying is true, but the racist white judge wasn’t stupid enough to express it. He hid behind the false claim of being objective. So if you find me the judge I will rip him too, but until than Sotomayor should be rip for a comment that NIA admits does not follow her pattern of rulings. If white men have been doing something wrong for years, its your responsiblity to do it right when you get a chance Judge Jenkins… not follow some dumb actions and continue messing up the justic system in a different direction.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:39 am
And Sotomayor should not be looking toward ALITO as reference on how to come to a conclusion.
I want objective, not weighted in my direction.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:42 am
I am not saying that they think or believe their opinions are better because they are white. And neither was she!! Please read the speech. Its linked in the post. In addition to her moderate opinions, you will see what she was actually saying regarding her being Latina and making decisions.
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:54 am
“That is something that was pointed out by a few Dems during the hearings, and completely overlooked by Repubs who chose to focus on a few lines in speeches”
Just wanted to point out that almost every Repub that questioned her also admitted that her judicial record was flawless. Which only serves to make the situation even more ridiculous
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N.I.A. naturally Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:56 am
She was not looking to him as a reference on how to come to a conclusion. She used him as an example of a double standard… to show that she is not the only person who has referenced her heritage as having a role in how she hears cases, not how she decides them.
Alito’s exact words…“When I get a case about discrimination, I have to think about people in my own family who suffered discrimination because of their ethnic background or because of religion or because of gender. And I do take that into account.” And he said this during his confirmation hearing, and did not receive nearly as much flack as she has for her comments…actually, I don’t think he received any negative attention at all about that comment. I wonder why….
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N.I.A. naturally Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:00 am
@ Peyso
You are exactly right!! I guess they figured that since they couldn’t be tough about her record, they would interrogate her speeches, and her affiliations with Latino organizations. smh….
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:13 am
NIA… WHAT DO YOU WANT THE REPBULICANS TO DO? VOTE FOR NOMINEE THEY DON’T LIKE?!? She is suppose to get hell from them!
Come on Alito got grilled for not answering questions.. for Concerned Alumni of Princeton and was called a bigot with no backing. This isn’t new, or racist. its politics, and you are not being unfair.
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Racist: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race…Merriam-Webster
To be truly “racist” your actions and feelings about a certain group must be rooted in an inherent sense of privilege created by a historical hierarchy. expressing a sense of prejudice is not the same as racist sentiment.
Racist views towards black people, in particular, did not appear from nothing. Elaborate propaganda placed in mainstream media such as the jezebel, mammy and lazy black male images created this hierarchy and are still pervasive in society today. (I don’t know if you’ve seen this stuff from the 50′s but its pretty sickening) I guess all I am trying to say is that we cannot forget the (very recent) history of this country and racial relations.
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RightCoastLexSteele, Pompous Jerk Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:56 am
Gotta co-sign w/ young MC. I think we have to acknowledge the fact that there’s a difference btw racism and prejudice.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:02 pm
“rooted in an inherent sense of privilege created by a historical hierarchy.”
and here is where I will attempt to make a point. Why is it that you have to be at the top of the hierarchy for your comment to be rooted in privilege?
If you are black and you make a comment or action about a latin man based off of historical race related issue does not the racist glove not fit you? Are you not trying to grab hold of a higher seat in the hierarchy than the mexican you are insulting?
Tiff’s Elvis comment.. those are long running sentiments express about african americans and music we consider to be invented by us. And she is trying to put her ancestors on a higher seat of importance on the rock and roll hierarchy.
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:14 pm
“and here is where I will attempt to make a point. Why is it that you have to be at the top of the hierarchy for your comment to be rooted in privilege?”
Yes, b/c the only privelege that is consistent enough to be called truly historical is that of the white male.
“If you are black and you make a comment or action about a latin man based off of historical race related issue does not the racist glove not fit you? Are you not trying to grab hold of a higher seat in the hierarchy than the mexican you are insulting? ”
No, I’m probably just trying to insult them. I am a dickhead b/c of this but not a racist. I’m not extending the institution of racism that, I as a black man has historically held over the latino man.
“Tiff’s Elvis comment.. those are long running sentiments express about african americans and music we consider to be invented by us. And she is trying to put her ancestors on a higher seat of importance on the rock and roll hierarchy.”
If we applied this logic to everything, we would all be racist. “Black ppl have historically been better at ball” – racist comment according to your logic
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:29 pm
“privelege that is consistent enough to be called truly historical is that of the white male. ”
so white women can’t be racist? What about overseas traveling in countries where their was no white privelege b/c everyone was white?
“I’m not extending the institution of racism”
The mexican would disagree. He would point to the existance to black institutions like the Church and argue that espcially since his ‘status’ in this country has been in question heavly lately you are using the history of black and latins in your favor. Its clearly weaker than the white topping black storyline. But depending on your comment, historical.
“Black ppl have historically been better at ball” Yeah, Ima call that racist. Just b/c its common racist wont let us off the hook or illogical.
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:33 pm
“so white women can’t be racist? What about overseas traveling in countries where their was no white privelege b/c everyone was white?”
racism is different everywhere you go, its not a constant.
“I’m not extending the institution of racism”
The mexican would disagree. He would point to the existance to black institutions like the Church and argue that espcially since his ’status’ in this country has been in question heavly lately you are using the history of black and latins in your favor. Its clearly weaker than the white topping black storyline. But depending on your comment, historical.”
Not every institution is the institution of racism. Two different things.
““Black ppl have historically been better at ball” Yeah, Ima call that racist. Just b/c its common racist wont let us off the hook or illogical.”
Like i said somewhere else, everything that is racial is not racist.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:01 pm
o boy.
We are off on every possible concept regarding race relations you could possible have. I might as well be Larry Elder. B/c where you see power play I see individual responsiblity. And where I see power play you see the opposite.
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and1grad Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Totally agree with Cheekz here. You dont need to be on top of a historical hierarchy to express a racist sentiment. Thats absurd.
Also, we ARE all racist. Its ignorant to believe that just b/c you’re a minority that you cant possibly have a racist opinion. Racism is a prejudice based solely on race. Who hasnt done that?
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:53 pm
#1) racist sentiment does not equal racism.
#2) racist opinion doesnt even make u a racist.
#3) i think its been defined pretty thoroughly that racism is more than just a prejudice based on race.
Ultimately, this argument (on both sides) is moot, we’re clearly arguing two different things b/c we cant even agree on the key term in the argument
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and1grad Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:03 pm
You’re probably right since I believe those other more involved definitions to be almost entirely fraudulent. Personally, I think crafting the definition such that it essentially only applies to white people not only does a disservice to the ability to ADDRESS racism, it winds up being counter-productive to actually dissolving it. But maybe thats the goal.
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Not necessarily, I just feel that the oppressor is racist. All other folk can be complete dickheads regarding race (for lack of a better term). We need to create strategies to eliminate both of them.
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Mc Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Pretending you have power is much different than actually having power within society…
And what is the history of race relations between blacks and Hispanics for example. Have black people launched a smear campaign against Hispanics deeming themselves better?? I may be living in a alternate universe but I think not.
Racism is bigger than any individual.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:32 pm
“Racism is bigger than any individual.”
so than I single white man can not be racist. Only an institutions? We have seen the worst racist actions come from the lowest levels of white america, even going back to slave days with the overseer. We are putting the white man in a position of power, despite the fact that they too are individuals who too are working on preception.
Now black have not created an anti latino campaign… whites have. The black men would be racist by using the anti latino sentiment created by Lou Dobbs.
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Mc Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I think individuals, forgetting race, are prejudice all of us we all act on stereotypes… a white person expressing prejudicial thoughts is racist because of the fact the lack of melanin = power in ours and many other countries…
as an example of what i see as power, when people speak of government aid and food stamps most peoples minds think of minorities when in actuality the majority of people who receive gov’t aid are white. Idk this is probably just one of my pet peeves working in public health but that is power to me… to be able to be un-educated and poor but eh your white so it is ok, just blame a minority community…
Lou Dobbs sentiment is not nearly as pervasive in our society as the anti-black sentiment created well before and continuing into our (well my parents) childhood and in the South to this day.
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Yes; minorities can be racist. In fact, sometimes we are the worst because we think we have blanket immunity when it comes to speaking sideways about other races. I think the racism minority to minority can be even more intense than racism majority to minority. It’s like the minorities have something to prove to the majority.
I believe racism to be, at it’s core, ignorance that was never fixed. I believe racism to be ideals of the negative variety one holds about another race to be true. All black people steal; all Hispanics are illegal… where I get hung up in this portion of my theory is, is always negative? Is it racist to think all Asians are good in science and math; all black people are good at sports?
Anywho, I go further and believe that you have these ideas and opinions about races and then you act on them and, for example, believe that because x is true you are better or deserve more than any of them, or don’t interact with them, etc…
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Man…
Tiff I gotta go pull out some notes for reference, gather my thoughts and then I’ll be back this afternoon
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I dont think that minorities can be practitioners of the large scale institution of rascism. However, there are smaller institutions where people who are traditionally thought to be minorities no longer pay no role; it is these cases where people who are deemed minorities in the large scale institution can be practitioners of rascism. For instance, a black admissions counselor fails to admit a white student into a HBCU solely b/c he is white is rascism. The same situation at a PWI is not rascism.
I dont really have a problem with people who are “rascist”. I have no intrinsic problem with the idea of rascism. People are free to believe whatever they want. However, I do have a problem when people allow their beliefs to negatively effect others. However, since thoughts usually tend to become actions an issue arises.
I agree with the comment someone wrote up thread about rascism never going away. Yes, we are in a post rascist society, where many (not all) of the institutions of rascism has been removed or lessened. But do trust we are still in a very racial society. Race still matters. Racism will never go away b/c race matters. And as long as race matters, people will think that their race is the best. I think this is what sparks rascism sometimes. People take pride in their race like they take pride in their families.
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ASmith Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:57 am
Clarify for me…
A black person at an HBCU that denies a white person entrance is racist, but if the same is done to a white person at a PWI it’s not?
If so, this gets into sketchy territory, because if an individual is denied entrance to any school because of race it’s racism; doesn’t matter the school, the race of the counselor or the race of the student. It’s racist if a white counselor doesn’t admit a white student to a PWI solely because said student is white. Same, as you say, at an HBCU.
This is not the same as filling your available spots with a mix of students so that some eligible white students aren’t given admission. Said eligible white students weren’t denied admission because of their race, they were denied admission because there weren’t enough spots (that’s part of being in the majority… tough cookies, I say)
It’s about intent… no matter the practitioner.
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Joey Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:00 am
I think (and correct me if I’m wrong Peyso) he was saying if a black admissions counselor denies a white person from a white institution because he’s white (and they have enough 2520s – as they say here), it’s not “institutional” racism (though it may be on a personal scale), but if it’s a black institution (where blacks have the “little p” power) it is.
Right?
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:04 am
You are right, the practitioner doesnt matter but the belief system that the practitioner bases its opinions off of matter. If a white admissions counselor denies a white student to a PWI, its not rascism b/c what institution is that white admissions counselor is extending?
I think we have to remember that everything racial isnt racist. IMHO, racist is very specific. Everything else is just f*cked up sh!t that happens b/c of race but not racism.
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ASmith Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:22 am
Ok; I see where you’re coming from and I agree…
But I also think this begs the question… can you be racist towards your own race? I guess if we agree that it’s about the institution and as others have pointed out, unless you are actually holding someone down, or someone back then it’s not racism then no… but what is it if you have ill opinions of your own race (besides hella ridic)
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:59 am
If you have ill opinions of your own race, you are most likely a self loathing victim of the institution of racism or some other propaganda against your own people
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Joey Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 10:58 am
that’s like my comment only condensed. so YEAH! lol.
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Speaking of racism…
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2009/07/henry-louis-gates-jr-arrested-seriously-cambridge.html
This is definitely an example of how systematic racism in our society negatively affects even the most prominent black people. I don’t think this would have ever happened to a white man. How can you get disorderly in your own home??
I still think individuals can be racist regardless of race lol but for the most part, i think the “system” can only be racist toward minorities.
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Tatica Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:14 am
Well put
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:19 am
Good point
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ASmith Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:22 pm
If we’re talking about a system that is racist to minorities because it is able to hold minorities back, then isn’t that oppression… so the system is racist and oppressive… minorities may not be able to be oppressive to the majority, but they can be racist, all the same.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Word.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Good looks with that link. Heard about it on the radio. Smh.
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Interesting Post…Tiff
My personal thought is the common saying and that is “if you are not in the position of power you can’t be racist”. I look at it to a similar situation on a gender level. If you are at work and there is a women’s focus group for women with children, no one will be crying sexism but if there was a group sole for men and men only, there might be a slightly murmurs in the office about the formation of the group.
But overall, in this day and age, anyone can be considered a racist especially amongst minority groups. I think overly black militant groups TODAY are very racist. I think they tend to conceptualize what was going on in the 1950s & 1960s and relate a lot of these areas in today’s world. I think black militant groups need to understand the severity of the time in which parties such as what the Black Panthers were about. But these groups fail to understand that the Black Panthers were not just a group that protested against the injustice of black people but all people that were being oppressed/facing injustice. I also think Black Militant groups today have it totally confused. So in that sense, yes minorities can be racist.
Joey above said it best, “I still think individuals can be racist regardless of race lol but for the most part, i think the “system” can only be racist toward minorities.”
Please Note: (I’m not saying we are in a perfect world and that prejudices & racism doesn’t still exist but these militant black groups tend to be over the top with their ideals and purpose.)
-BBW
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RightCoastLexSteele, Pompous Jerk Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:49 am
Gunshots and Joloff rice
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i think minorities can be racist.
i come from a nigerian background (both my parents are immigrants). i know a lot of nigerians of my parents generation that have a lot of racist views towards mexicans and black americans.
i have a line brother that grossly detests asians. he doesn’t respect the fact that he thinks that they believe they are better than other races. he uses racial slurs towards asians freely. his most popluar line is “name one good thing an asian has done for you?”
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:57 am
define racist
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:15 pm
I have a very ‘shallow’ definition. It doesn’t sound fancy or intellectual like yalls. Never liked the Africana definition. But I’m kind of proud of it:
Racist. Doing something or thinking something based off of someone’s race. Racist.
Now some will say no cheekz that is discrimination or blah blah… F that, you have your definitions I have mind. And it seems that mine makes more sense b/c race is in the word Racist and power is not.
**sits back in the corner and put on the dunce hat.***
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:20 pm
how many legs does a donkey have if you count its tail as a leg?
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:33 pm
5.
But we can’t call a tail a leg. Why can’t I say racist comments are based off race and not on power?
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Y cant I call a tail a leg?
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:44 pm
because there is already a definition for leg. You ask me to define racism. We you want to argue about the definition of leg, that is understandable, but its already universally accepted. Racism, not so much.
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 12:46 pm
But academia has generally defined racism and u strayed from it
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Yeah, no arguements. I feel academia has shown a liberal bias in their formation of that definition. I can see why they came to that conclusion. However they are purposely using a word that common america already has developed a stigma against and added fox news type spin on it as a way of promoting their fairly noble goal.
I mean.. its cool to challenge academia. They encourage it, right? If you had a reason to change the definition of leg, Docs would listen. Cornell West too good to talk to us cubicle ninjas?
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racism is whack.
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:07 pm
racism is cat
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:13 pm
racism is fat.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:19 pm
lol at the simplicity of these comments.
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RightCoastLexSteele, Pompous Jerk Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Very cat.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 2:43 pm
and that is a fact.
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Cheekie is Flabbergasted Reply:
July 21st, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Ya’ll on some Dr. Seuss ish with the above. I’m half-expecting someone to hop on pop while refusing green eggs and ham and instead eating one fish two fish red fish blue fish.
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OMG, I just got into Three Ways at the plantation! Through Facebook of all means. I had decided to click on it just to test my luck (I’m a masochist, obviously) and lo and behold.
WTF…
*does a jig*
Let’s hope this keeps up.
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Minorities are racist, step outside of the US and you’ll figure it out like a 5 finger discount on your cheek…your facial cheek (not the nice kind of cheek.)
There’s a difference between prejudice and racism and it’s often distinct, but sometimes that line is blurred. Not that it’s an excuse, but white people aren’t always aware of that line (hence the misuse of the term ‘ghetto’) But minorities know the difference and yet they still cross the line. Habitual line steppers. We’re all a little prejudice, but racist is on another level. Are minorities prejudice? Absolutely. Who isn’t? Are minorities racist? Absolutely. And they’re going after the white man first.
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I am sad I was gone for most of this discourse today. I must say that I do love our readers though!
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