Visit Our Store!
Don’t Waste Your Time
Last week, Tramayne sent me an email asking for my thoughts about something. At first, I thought “Finally, someone has taken the ‘Ask Miss Jenkins’ idea seriously.” Just kidding. Kinda. I digress. Here’s an excerpt, with my response below:
I was talking to a guy the other day who told me that he would not invest his time or money in a young lady unless he was absolutely certain that there was a mutual interest between them and a clear direction for the relationship . . . . There would be none of that, “let’s meet and chat over dinner/drinks” (unless its dutch). That’s what the phone is for, he said. He said that too many females are just looking for a free meal and he had to be sure that the girl wasn’t just using him for his money . . . . He said he had better ways to waste time and it wasn’t going to be on someone he didn’t plan to get serious with.
. . . .I don’t know if this is an issue of trust, self-preservation, or if this guy is really just a cheapskate . . .?
Dear Tramayne,
I think your friend is taking a semi-defensive approach to dating. In years past, it’s been standard for a man to pay for everything when he first takes an interest in a woman (or even vise versa). No matter the level of interest or the venue, the man picked up the tab. If he met her in the club, he was expected to buy her (and her homegirls) drinks. If they made it to dinner and a movie, he was footing the whole bill. Dates after that were more of the same. But in these days of independent women being praised by rappers, R&B sangers, and themselves, it seems like men are taking notice of something: even when a woman has her own, she may still be willing to see how much she can get from a man. For some it only goes as far as a dinner or two. For others, she’ll take as much as she can get, as long as he lets her.
I have been out on a few dates and have paid for my own drinks, movie tickets, meal, etc. I was always prepared to do so, but I can’t say that I wasn’t taken aback once it became clear that he wasn’t paying for us both. Either way, I have started to understand the approach. He didn’t know me and I didn’t know him, so why start the “investment” so soon? At first, like you mentioned, women want to say the man is cheap, or he is lacking in the piece size chivalry department. But if you think about it, it kinda makes sense, depending on how the two came to meet each other, the tone of their conversations, and what they understand the dynamic of the relationship to be. Those details are key.
Do I think it’s a waste of time to go out to dinner or some other date-type activity with someone, even if I have to pay my own way? Not if I think we could have a good time. But I do agree with your friend about the value of taking the time to get to know people by talking to them on the phone (or text messages or twitter or gchat or facebook). For one, time is money. Whether you are a student, your own boss, or working for the man, time is valuable. If you can tell, after a few conversations, that a man or woman is a dud, would you still waste your time, energy and money on a subpar meal and lackluster conversation, just to wait for that “emergency phone call” from your friend to end the misery? I doubt it. And if you do, hoping for a different result, you usually regret it.
To answer your question, I wouldn’t say your friend is being a cheapskate. I’d say he’s proceeding with caution. It’s a combination of trust (making sure he’s not wasting time on a shady broad) and self-preservation (making sure his bank account stays in order, and he doesn’t get catch feelings for someone who isn’t worth it). We all know there are plenty of free-loading women out there. Some are very good at pretending to be otherwise. Until further notice, your friend is treating all women the same. Whether he is right or wrong for that, I don’t know.
What do you all think? Is her friend being paranoid or over thinking things? Is there anything wrong with a woman paying her own way on a date? Have the rules of dating changed? How so? When should the investment begin? Ladies, have you ever been out with a man who pulled out the dutch card? Fellas, when should a woman pay half, if ever? Share your thoughts.
Just ask…
RSS & Twitter
-
I don’t mind paying for a date if I’m into her, but i would appreciate at least a pump fake for the purse like she might just pay for it. That earns a full cool point.
Reply
Jasmine Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 9:32 am
The ‘pump fake’ is always a winner, except the one time the ninja didn’t wave it off and even asked “Are we going dutch or you gonna pay for it all?” wtf?!?!
btw, old boy is a cheapskate and not very creative. Just because you have an excuse for trifflin behavior, doesn’t mean it should be excused. There’s a million and one things you can do that doesn’t cost any more that $20 for the both of you in any city, while you’re getting to know each other. he.lacks.game.
Reply
Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:26 am
You think that women dont realize that all of their dates are cheap dates? Be realistic about it. There isnt a men only depot where we learn about cheap dates, women have access to them and will eventually know that they’ve only been taken to them.
Reply
Tramayne Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
There are plenty of things to do that cost very little or nothing at all! The investment includes face time (pause). You can’t get to know someone very well by just talking on the phone/texting.
IMO, you talk on the phone once or twice to set up the date, then start weeding out after you’ve actually met.
Reply
S0_Flyy Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:13 am
I haven’t been on many dates… but I always ask how much I owe when he looks at the bill while I find my purse. And I don’t do it just to pretend… I’d actually go dutch if he’d like. I’ve never had a guy say, your half is ‘$15.19′ or anything. Lol. They usually take care of it. I have had times where I covered the tip, and he covered the bill. I thought that was a nice compromise & the guy usually seemed really happy w/ that.
Reply
L. Dejean Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
I’ve covered the tip while the other covered the bill or i’ve covered the movie while he covered dinner…compromises are always a winner!
Reply
Great post!!!
I think he is going by it the right way. I know that a lot of us complain about men not having any kind of chivalry but quite frankly its weird when that happens. Take, it is extremely appreciated when its done, but rarely does it happen.
Now a days I expect to always go dutch, always. I will offer each and every single time, even if you say no, my card will come out too. But I think it’s more appreciated when WE pick up the tab. I’m sure the men out there are pretty tired of always being expected to pay for things.
I’ve done that several times, and it feels good, and I’m sure he’d be shocked that it’ll warrant a 2nd date. #Swindle
Reply
I agree with waiting to get to know people before you go on dates, by talking on the phone etc. If we are going for coffee or something I don’t really mind paying for my drink (but if you can’t pay for a $4 coffee flags do go up). HOWEVER, if you ask me on a date, especially a first date I won’t pay or even pretend to. Its just the way I was raised, in the first few dates either the man is paying or I’m cooking. I don’t think that chivalry is weird, its expected.
Once we get more comfortable with the situation then I don’t mind paying here and there but I don’t believe in going dutch, either I’m paying or you are. If you can’t afford to pay for both of us but you can afford to go dutch on every date then we can stay in some nights, I’ll cook, and you can pay on date nights. I think that paying for a date asserts you as a man, just as cooking and keeping up a house asserts me as a woman. Call me old fashion, a gold digger, whatever, that’s just the way we Kriolas (Cape Verdeans, if you didn’t know) do it.
Reply
“To answer your question, I wouldn’t say your friend is being a cheapskate. I’d say he’s proceeding with caution. It’s a combination of trust (making sure he’s not wasting time on a shady broad) and self-preservation (making sure his bank account stays in order, and he doesn’t get catch feelings for someone who isn’t worth it).”
I couldn’t have said it better. And I agree with Lola. I think it’s appreciated a lot more when women pick up the tab since guys feel they’re obligated to do it but they really shouldn’t feel that way.
d(^_^)b on the post Miss Jenkins.
Reply
Stop the presses, hold the phone and shut the front door! When did all of this start, men have been trying to pull this swindle for too long. If we going on a date or a get to know you better session being the man, he’s expected to pay. I’m not a gold digger nor do I want a man to do everything for me but that’s the way its always been. Now I’ll pay for a date if it’s something I suggest that my date doesn’t really want to do but this friend of the Tramayne is not proceeding with caution. He’s putting a big fork in his relationship road. No woman JUST wants to talk on the phone or through email. Me personally, if that’s the only communication I’m getting from you….I’m going to think you’re not interested OR put you in the dreaded friend zone. This friend is probably going to miss out on some pretty decent woman with his thought process. But what do I know…I’m single and not paying for dates. Lol
Reply
Mrs Smiley Face Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 8:55 am
I completely agree…my eyebrows went straight to my hairline reading this. Chivalry is dead? Since when? *shrug* I’d definitely think that you’re not interested if all you want to do is talk on the phone and THEN go out. I’m a face to face person, but hey, he isn’t dating me or rather I should say talking me.
Reply
InsomniaPoet Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 9:21 am
I am with you! This is craziness! I don’t pay for any dates; first, last or in between. I am a looking for a man, not a homegirl, or new buddy. I go dutch with my friends. If you can’t afford to date me then don’t. I won’t have any hard feelings but I refuse to give men an excuse to do even less than they already do….unacceptable!
I go out on dates w/ enough money to cover my check if I have to (because its just stupid to leave the house without ANY money) but please beleive if I have to reach into my purse for even a penny there will be no follow up dates….or even conversation for that matter….
Now if your my dude, totally different situation. When you broke if I have it, lets go, thats the beauty of a relationship. But until you reach sginificant other status don’t be looking at me for $$ at all!
Reply
If a man asks me out on a date..he should pay period. If I approach a man about doing something then I should either be prepared to go dutch..or perhaps pay for both of us…however, all of that should hashed out beforehand.
Reply
I think men should pay for the first two dates. However, we need to more clearly define what a date is. IMHO, dates do not happen during the week before 7pm. Dates are not happy hours. Dates are not hanging out w/ other people. Dates are not networking events. This should narrow it down. If you’re meeting a guy/girl at one of these events, you’re not on a date and should expect to foot your end of the bill.
Lastly, I think that is completely unrealistic to be conveniently progressive and old school about certain things. That’s all I will say about that
Reply
Miss Jenkins Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 9:40 am
However, we need to more clearly define what a date is.
That’s a good point. Maybe I used the word too loosely. There is a difference between going out for drinks and going out on a date. Now that I think about, the times I have paid weren’t dates. Too bad this post is written in stone.
Reply
streetztalk Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Jenkins is trying to increase the standard for trickin…lmao
Seriously tho Cozillle the Peysiotic one!
Reply
If I ask a guy out I’m prepared to pay for him and myself…because after all…I asked him out.
And vice versa.
I’m not particulary bent out of shape about the “who’s paying issue” as I am with the idea of what a “date” is.
Reply
S0_Flyy Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:15 am
And this is the winning statement of the day.
Reply
I agree with Bahama and Queen T. Even when I was in my early 20s I never had a guy NOT pay for a date he asked ME on. #WDDDA? I’m older now so most men have the means to pay for dates, so that hasn’t been an issue for me when I was dating.
I hate to say guys need to get over it, but why can’t you get to know someone in a creative, low cost way? it doesn’t have to be expensive at all. I understand the guy not wanting to invest a lot of money, but TIME? Yeah dude, move around. How do you know she is worthy if you aren’t spending any time finding out…
Reply
LaBakir Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 9:45 am
EXACTLY!!! And that’s my issue…dudes be hella lazy, not wanting to put in effort. Going for a walk in the park and getting some ice cream is super cheap. Yeah, it may sound a little ghey or cliche…but if money (or time in some cases) is tight…or your just trying to be “cautious” like the man in the scenario…you’re not “losing” anything.
Reply
Hmmm… I don’t know.
I do know that I prefer creativity or expensiveness. One of the best dates I ever had literally involved walking around UNC’s campus for 3 hours with a scoop of ice cream and just talking. I’d rather get to know you then make you go broke… we can save that for the engagement ring (should that day come).
I will say that I have no problem going dutch or paying for the date… but I do have a problem with this whole women are gold diggers mind thought. If you’re walking into that before we even meet we aren’t going to work… perhaps T needs to re-evaluate the girls he’s approaching.
Reply
FYI, Tramayne not the guy who afraid of gold diggers. She’s his friend.
Reply
Little Miss Sunshine Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Sorry about that.
Reply
1. I’ve never dated a man who didn’t pay for a date. Period. Not one.
2. I’ve never gone dutch when dating a man. And these dates included going out for drinks. Of course I could have gotten it, but I didn’t have to. And most men I know aren’t pressed about a $9 drink. #NIAshrug
3. I’ve only paid once, and the man was MY man and we were in undergrad. If my boo couldn’t get it because his finaid refund hadn’t come in, then I would pick up the tab. But since he hated to have me paying for dates, we usually had movie nights or picnics in fromt of the fireplace. He was embarrassed to have his woman pay for him.
4. What is wrong with you men? Seriously, why does paying for dates bother you so much? A lot of this is your fault because you want to impress women by being a big spender. You want to do expensive ish instead of using your imagination to have a cheap date. A stroll around the park, and going for ice cream afterwards? A picnic in the park? Bowling? There are all sorts of cheap dates, but it seems to me the men who complain the most about paying for dates are the same ones who think spending a lot of money makes for a better time. Not always the case.
Reply
Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:29 am
“4. What is wrong with you men? Seriously, why does paying for dates bother you so much? A lot of this is your fault because you want to impress women by being a big spender. You want to do expensive ish instead of using your imagination to have a cheap date. A stroll around the park, and going for ice cream afterwards? A picnic in the park? Bowling? There are all sorts of cheap dates, but it seems to me the men who complain the most about paying for dates are the same ones who think spending a lot of money makes for a better time. Not always the case.”
Women front like they actually like this BS. Or maybe I only like girls who love steak, who knows?
Reply
LaBakir Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:37 am
I don’t think it’s a front. At least I’m not. If a guy took me on a date to do something like that, I’d feel like he was attempting to think outside the box. If we went bowling, I’d be impressed that (maybe) he remembered I like bowling.
Yes, I like steak…and lobster…and creme brulee…and whatnot. Do I expect you to shell out $ for that ish early on in the game…hell no
Because please believe…I’m not shelling it out either
Reply
N.I.A. naturally Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:37 am
I remember you mentioned on the pretentious post that you, Sir Peyso, are a little pretentious. If you meet women when you are on “I’m the shit, get like me.” flow during happy hours and network events, then yes, the ladies you attract will probably love more expensive things. You get what you put out. That’s necessarily a bad thing, just recognize it, and don’t complain about it.
Personally, I prefer the “getting to know you better” dates to be less expensive, with an emphasis on us really conversing. and I don’t eat steak… lol.
Reply
Little Miss Sunshine Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:39 am
co-sign.
and Peyso… side-eye.
Reply
Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Yes. I am pretentious. That being said I have paid for every first, second or third date I’ve ever been on. However, I dont go on many of those (I got me an SO now and before I was master of #letschill swindle)
Reply
N.I.A. naturally Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:53 am
lol. congrats on having the SO, and always paying for dates. I was just saying, because of your nature, you pull the steak ladies. Trust, when I meet pretentious guys, I never suggest cheaper dates. And they always pay.
Reply
I’m not one that really adheres to traditional gender roles (much to the chagrin of my Jamaican mother), but for some reason the notion of paying for dates has always stuck with me.
My general rule when I go out on dates is “if I can’t afford to pay for everything, I can’t afford to go out tonight”. Or, alternatively, I plan dates according to how full (or empty, won’t even lie about it) my bank account is at the moment. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the offers to go dutch, but I politely decline since I don’t have the expectation of the lady paying for her half (especially if I’m the one that asked her out).
It’s interesting that despite how “progressive” I think I am, I still cling to this tradition, even as I reject others. I think it’s a Caribbean thing (one of my best friends is Bajan and he’s the exact same way).
Reply
I’ll pay for dates if we’re in a relationship… no problem. I’ve always had dates paid for and occassionally I’ll pick up the tab. I do offer to pay, I just feel like I should… I don’t know but I’ve only paid ONCE. And that one time I paid for him & I it was the most awkward situation EVER. I felt like, for real? The bill came (I was younger and a little over zealous) I reached for it. I looked at, and was like “hmph. That’s all?” Slid my card in it and he was like you’re going to pay for it? Well of course I thought he meant my 1/2 and I said ‘sure. why not?’ Next thing I know… I’m paying for both of us. LMAO. Inside I was little frustrated… a little confused & when we got outside he basically confessed his love for me b/c I paid the bill. He said he was always dating model-type chicks who felt a sense of entitlement and never even flinched when the bill came. The fact that I paid for it in full made him love me. LMAO. He ‘promised’ to take me out on a date of exponential proportions just to prove how much it meant to him. Sadly, we had to part ways for our last semester of undergrad. He now plays in the NFL & I’m still waiting for that date… whomps.
Reply
S0_Flyy Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:20 am
That was supposed to say occassionally pick up the tip.
Reply
What do you all think? Is her friend being paranoid or over thinking things?
No.
Is there anything wrong with a woman paying her own way on a date?
No.
Have the rules of dating changed? How so?
Yes. Women changed the rules, so men changed their approach.
When should the investment begin?
When one feels comfortable making it.
Fellas, when should a woman pay half, if ever? Share your thoughts.
Depends on the man. I’d pay for the first date, just because that’s just me. Even with my current GF, if she wants to pay and I let her, she better not pull out the money in front of the waiter. She has to give me the money before hand. But unless you’re in an official relationship, there is no reason for a man to have to pay for both parties.
Reply
Reecie Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:35 am
“Even with my current GF, if she wants to pay and I let her, she better not pull out the money in front of the waiter. She has to give me the money before hand”
oh really? why does it matter who sees if she pays?
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:40 am
She’s not gonna make me look like I’m some negro sitting on the couch playing PS3 while she’s at work making all the money taking care of me. Call it an ego thing if you wish, but when the check comes, I’m handing the waiter the money.
Reply
QueenT Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Hugh…now that is a swindle! LOL
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:05 am
It sure is! Actually, I pay most of the time, but then again 1. she’s my girl, not just some date and 2. I make considerably more than she does. She just doesn’t want to look like she’s using me, so she offers to pay quite often. But it doesn’t matter if we are at a supermarket, restaurant, wherever, she does NOT hand anyone money.
Reply
Miss Jenkins Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:53 am
I can dig that.
Reply
Reecie Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
absolute ego. if you want her to pay, she should be able to outright pay.
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I didn’t say I want her to pay, it’s when she wants to pay.
But you’re right, it’s absolute ego!
Reply
Reecie Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
even when she wants to. suffice to say, glad that works for you and yours.
Reply
Ashley Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:06 am
@Reecie: Right, I mean, you didnt pay so….im confused as to why she needs to discretely pay for the meal.
@Hugh Jazz: How have women changed the rules?
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Although most women have always worked, women are now claiming to be independent, graduating in higher numbers than men, especially graduate degrees, and excelling in the work place. Some women claim equality and independence when it suits them, then cry chivalry when it’s advantageous to them.
Men are logical creatures: it’s hard to tell us you’re equal to us, make more money than us, then expect preferential treatment. It’s difficult to use antiquated notions of chivalry to justify to a man who is a claims adjuster making $60K a year to pay for dates for a woman who is an executive making $100K a year. When the game changes, the strategies and tactics change, and the players adjust to the new rules.
Reply
Ashley Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:29 am
@Hugh Jazz: Cool. I thought you were gonna give us one of those “I aint puttin in effort into none of these hoes unless she treats me like a king off the BREAK” kinds of excuses (I know it sounds ridiculous but you’d be amazed at how many times I hear that…I have no problem treating the object of my affection like a king, but shit…you cant come out treating me like the court jester). LOL
Reply
S0_Flyy Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Soooooo chivalry must suffer b/c my career thrives? O_o I guess.
Sounds like a swindle to me. Just as you can’t use the same thronx stroke w/ every girl, it seems to me you can’t apply the independent women logic to every woman w/ a graduate degree.
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:45 am
100% correct, it is illogical for a man to use that approach to every woman. But nowadays you have some women talking about co-leaders in a household, wearing pants in the relationship, throwing their income, degrees and accomplishments up in a man’s face, saying the Bible is antiquated about saying a man is the head of the house, hyphenating their last names when they get married, etc.
If a woman believes that, sorry, she can’t appeal to chivalry. She has to pick one; it doesn’t matter which one, but if a woman believes they are no longer the weaker sex, then she can’t appeal to old societal standards.
If a woman who makes more than her man wants to allow the man to be the head of the relationship, this doesn’t apply. Earned income != leadership. But she can’t have her cake and eat it too.
Reply
S0_Flyy Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Agreed. 100%
*offers handshake*
Reply
Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Yes. That makes perfect sense. Career success (on the gender level) is a zero sum game meaning that in order for women to succeed men have to succeed less. I’ll admit that they havent evened out yet so men should still be footing the bill however it need not occur at the same level that it did in the past. Chivalry started out of the women’s inability and the men’s ability. It wasnt all flowers and sh*t.
and eff that, I’m going to be the most chivalrous dude out there. I’m picking what you eat and you cant even talk to another man when we’re out together. Let’s play by all of the rules
Reply
L. Dejean Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
if you’re picking whatever she eats, i hope you know her food allergies & what she does/doesn’t eat…or else a hospital trip will ensue rather than one to the bedroom!
Reply
MadScientist7 Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
“Depends on the man. I’d pay for the first date, just because that’s just me. Even with my current GF, if she wants to pay and I let her, she better not pull out the money in front of the waiter. She has to give me the money before hand.”
i’m interested in knowing how that works out for you. what part of the country to do you live in where women fall for this b.s.? lol
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Milwaukee. I’m not saying it works in general, but my SO knows not to attempt reaching for her purse in the presence of the waiter.
Reply
SaneN85 Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Sooo, since women want to be more independent, we should be paying for things (not that I have a problem with this), but when we do, some men expect for us to pretend they paid. It seems to me that if you want the woman to pay (and have no problem expressing this), then you should be okay with her doing it publicly.
Oh vey, my head hurts.
Reply
QueenT Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Sane..don’t even try to comprehend it. lol.
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
It’s very simple to comprehend. I’m not asking her to pay, she volunteers. Therefore, the “wanting the woman to pay” doesn’t apply in my case.
And Streetz, after all the comments by everyone, I realize it might be a swindle, but that’s the way it is. Just as I heed to most other chivalrous gestures, she is not allowed to pull out money in the presence of the waiter.
*placing foot down, earth trembles with seismic intensity*
Reply
SaneN85 Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
If you feel strong enough in your manliness to “let” her pay (as you put it), then you should feel confident enough to actually let her pay and not worry about what the waitstaff is (probably not) saying about you.
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
In that case, why heed to any chivalrous notions at all? I can be strong enough in my manliness to let her pay for the first date and every subsequent one, open her own door, pull out her own chair, etc., and not worry what anyone is saying.
Reply
SaneN85 Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
If you’re only heeding to chivalrous notions because society tells you to, by all means, don’t. I think this whole “chivalry is dead” ish is silly, because most of you damn sure expect the woman to heed to you in the relationship. Most of you want to weild the power, expect home cooked meals, etc.
I have personally always been ready and willing to pay, but if you ask someone out then you should be prepared to pay. If you don’t feel that you should, then just don’t ask people out. I’ve always paid if I made the plans or did the asking/inviting, because it’s just common courtesy.
I’m just saying that you obviously care enough about your ego to go through the trouble to hide that you’re letting her pay. If that’s the case, somewhere inside, you believe you SHOULD be paying. If you’re okay with ignoring that instinct, it shouldn’t matter if people may or may not (likely not) think something of it. I see no reason to put up a show.
Reply
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
“If you’re only heeding to chivalrous notions because society tells you to, by all means, don’t.”
No, I do it by instinct and because I was raised that way. However, I understand logically why another man wouldn’t.
I have personally always been ready and willing to pay, but if you ask someone out then you should be prepared to pay. If you don’t feel that you should, then just don’t ask people out.
To quote myself in response to Miss Jenkins’ question when a woman should pay half, I replied “I’d pay for the first date, just because that’s just me.” Again, your complaint doesn’t apply to me. When did I ever say I would ask someone out and expect them to pay? I mean when did I ever say that; go back and check the entire archives of http://www.SBM.org.
“I’m just saying that you obviously care enough about your ego to go through the trouble to hide that you’re letting her pay. If that’s the case, somewhere inside, you believe you SHOULD be paying.”
And with my girl, I pay most of the time. That’s not for any jawn (workcite Peyso), but for her because she’s earned it. I hardly ever ignore the instinct. When she requests to pay, it is for her to show me that she isn’t using me for my money. If giving the appearance of me paying a bill is simply “a show”, then every single act of chivalry is. Opening doors is for show. Pulling out chairs is for show. I choose to do those things.
And you know I love you Sane, next time you’re in the Milwaukee/Chicago area, we can go out for drinks and I’ll pay.
SaneN85 Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Hugh, I should have mentioned that the first two paragraphs in that weren’t really pointed at you specifically, just me not wanting to write 2 separate comments. I also understand why some men prefer not to be chivalrous, but those men better not expect to be treated like a king if they can’t treat her like a queen.
I still think we fall on different sides of chivalry being a show, but I just had the most exhausting conversation with a co-worker and don’t care to have another one. LOL
Trust, I will take you up on that offer if I’m ever in the area. However, I need to be able to get a round or two. I’ll even go against every fiber of my being and slide the cash to you on the low. FTR, I can see why your ego would want this. In fact, I vaguely recall doing this once or twice for my husband. I thought it was silly of him though, too. LOL
Hugh Jazz Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
I’ll just leave it alone and say I’ll buy your drinks and shake SO Flyy’s hand! (SO Flyy, I got you on the drinks too)
streetztalk Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
One of the most classic swindles ive read on these blog sites. lmao
Reply
Ooops…didnt see that response…I still wanna know how women changed the rules though!
Reply
I haven’t been on many conventional “dates”.. i had been conditioned from my last relationship (where i was paying for everything).. and i hate feeling like i’m not contributing, so i’m always prepared to pay for my half.. this means that i’m not ordering the lobster if i only have enough for the chicken tenders. i’m a control freak so i like to be prepared for every eventuality..
I’ve noticed though that there’s a lot of the “let’s go hang out” swindle… since i didn’t have my decoder ring on, i didn’t know that this was a date and i ended up paying.. i called dude on it, you think he ever did that again? #NuhSir (we don’t even talk anymore..)
it was mentioned upthread.. there’s nothing wrong with choosing something inexpensive.. you get to see where her head is at and it shows her some creativity.. one of my favorite outings was a walk on the riverfront.. the meal was some pizza (yumm) and sodas.. *brushes hands off* it’s not hard, but then again i don’t go on dates nowadays.. so what do i know?
Fin
Reply
Last but not least… Tramayne’s friends sounds bitter. I really do get the protect & preserve logic, but he sounds like he’s not letting go of some things that may have occured in the past. In my experience, the dudes protecting their wallets the hardest usually have other major dating flaws but seem to think that when a woman ‘plays’ them (after looking back at all those dates paid for) she was only after his money from the jump.
Reply
I’ll pay for dates. Not a problem. It’s the way I was raised. However, I agree with the man quoted above. Because I have a limited amount of money and time, I filter women out through text and phone conversations.
I’d rather take my friends or my family out, have a good time and chill than drop loot on a young lady who isn’t worth it. It’s not being a cheapskate, it’s logical.
Reply
If you like this post format, email me @ sowhatiff.jenkins@gmail.com with your questions or pontifications.
Reply
Men traditionally pay for dates because they generally make more money than women. Its not an investmemt. Its a kind gesture. If you bring your coworker an iced coffee is that an investment. When you do something kind for someone else it says more about you not them. If a man wants to avoid paying choose a date that doesnt cost money. There is no equal playing field because women have babies. Men will have to show they are capable of giving at some point what does it matter how well you know this woman there is a man somewhere treating your future wife with respect and to dinner. Men are building a loyalty to treating women like ladies. All women have to do is continue to be grateful appreciative and conduct themselves with class and standards. The dating plain is not fair equal or more or less in anyones favor quit trying to make it that way
Reply
*sigh* Dealing with the opposite sex has truly become exhausting.
Reply
LaBakir Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Pretty much.
Reply
L. Dejean Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
what you both said!
Reply
maybe it’s me but i don’t have a problem paying for dates. i guess since i’m still a student a woman couldn’t possibly be a gold digger coming after me because i don’t have any real money. plus i’m that arrogant that i truly believe that if a woman goes out on a date with me it means that she is interested in my personality, merit and who i am as a person. in that case then i don’t have a problem paying for dates.
Reply
L. Dejean Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Word to the Student Nation…i’m pretty broke myself…i’d rather chill at home & watch a movie, order in or cook…i think you can get to know a person just as well in that setting as in a restaurant (plus you save some money).
Reply
LaBakir Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Eh, I’m kinda careful about that.
Some dudes have alterior motives with the “come over” swindle. My house is not the date spot (nor his) at least until a certain level of comfort is reached. I’m not keen on just letting any old ninja up in my house.
Reply
N.I.A. naturally Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
I didn’t even like men knowing where I live until we reach a level of comfort. And since I live in a big apartment building, it’s easy to pull the “I’ll meet you outside” #swindle. Never let him know which apartment I live in.
Reply
LaBakir Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
You feel me? I don’t need ninjas just popping up uninvited.
Reply
L. Dejean Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Well, i wasn’t saying my place as the female, it could be his…but that’s once you trust the person.
I’ve done this once but it was when I lived in a dorm (that had visitation hour limitations) and the guy lived in a frat house (where dudes gossip more than females), which is better? But I also trusted the person.
Due to who some of the people I live with have dealt with, I can’t get any worse (well, maybe if they were like a pedophile) than those people who know where i live right now…#deepsigh
Reply
MadScientist7 Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
the come over my house and i can cook for you should not be used within the first say 5 dates. even though the motives may be innocent i don’t need any chick thinking i’m trying to take advantage of her when i’m not.
Reply
L. Dejean Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
True, some chicks do think that way…depending on how a guy is speaking to me, i wouldn’t think that way but if dude is only talking about sessual matters, then I would less inclined to think that isn’t his motive.
A picnic in the park (not trying to be cliche) could be an inexpensive alternative as well. I think thinking outside of the restaurant date box would be appreciated (if the woman is the creative, let’s conserve our resources type).
Reply
L. Dejean Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
would be less inclined*
Reply
Tramayne Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
That’s what I said about dude! What do you mean shorty is tryna use you?! Your money ain’t that long! You’re a 20 year old undergrad!
That’s why I thought it might have been an issue of trust. Why do you assume someone (in this case a female) is trying to use you right off the bat?
Reply
if you asked me out, you pay
if i asked you to take me some where, you pay
if you’re broke and can’t afford to pay, let’s do something else
when do i pay? if the spirit moves me
the end
Reply
Thank you, Miss Jenkins, for intervening in what could have been yet another “men ain’t sh*t” debate!
What shocked me the most about the conversation I had with my friend was that he wasn’t willing to invest in the relationship right away–and by “investment” I meant face time (no not the face time Slim is always talking about), hanging out and having fun. Naturally, when people hear the word “investment”, they think $$. But there’s more to it relationship wise–time for example. What’s wrong with spending a little time to get to know a person? How do you even know you want to get to know a person without a little investment?
I don’t think in male-female relationships, the only return you seek on your investment should be a romantic relationship (or sex). I’ve gone on plenty of dates with guys who turned out to be really great friends (JUST friends, for the record).
I don’t have a problem paying for dates. What’s a little cash when you’re having a good time? I meeeeean, I didn’t say dude had to drop a stack on a first date, but not even $10 for coffee and conversation? #comeonson!
Reply
Big Meech Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
lol @ Tramayne shouting me out for face time. I’m going to use that in a post this week just because you said it.
Reply
@Please Excuse Your Significant Other: “Lastly, I think that is completely unrealistic to be conveniently progressive and old school about certain things. That’s all I will say about that”
*Light bulb goes on* Umm…Miss Jenkins..?
Reply
Miss Jenkins Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Yes dear?
Reply
Get to the point = an effective thing to say to communicate your time and love is valuable.
Reply