“Dude, Don’t Do It.”
Those are the words uttered by every newlywed or soon to be married man I’ve met recently. And some didn’t need to utter it at all. Case in point, I was in the club the other day and ran into one of my fraternity brothers. He was there celebrating his friend’s impending marriage. When I went to say congrats to the man, he gave me the most terrified look I’ve seen in a long time. The guy looked scared out of his mind. I guess that’s normal when you’re making a life changing decision. But someone please explain to me why I see that same look of fear or just straight disappointment in other married men’s eyes.
It’s not a promising thing for a young man to see. Especially since it’s hard enough for a man to decide to get married. We’re not geared for it. Not in the biological sense that others often try to explain, but psychological. Since birth young girls are instilled with motherly tendencies when they’re given dolls, playhouses and tea sets. They’re beat over the head with thoughts and images of life long relationships. Most, not all, already have an idea of what their wedding is going to be like. Hence the popularity of shows like Bridezilla and the whole WE network. On the other hand, boys are given trucks, action figures and sports equipment and told to be competitive. And if we’re not going head to head against another male, we’re told to seek out adventures and work. Solo. You see where the disparities lie? As a result, we don’t look forward to marriage, in fact, many of us abhor the idea of it. And lately it’s showing.
I was reading an article in Time Magazine last week, yes Time Magazine, that was saying the sanctity of marriage is at an all time low point. Divorce rate is higher than ever, high profile political leaders and entertainers are stepping out on their family with reckless abandon and there’s an astounding amount of single parents. All in all, the vow is shot to hell.
It doesn’t take a few graphs and some words in a renown magazine to tell me that though. Not sure if you remember, but about 10 – 12 years ago there was an outbreak of divorces amongst middle class suburbanites. So much so that evening news covered it. You know it’s serious then. It’s been rolling ever since. I’m sure no one needs to be reminded about all the politicians that have been caught stinky handed recently. And all you have to do is take a walk through a low-income area to see many young girls of various ethnicities with children. Marriage has taken a LAPD style beating from Americans. Forget the new stories and sightings, I’ve been in the middle of it.
My friend is currently crashing at every place but his own. Why? Well, because his wife and him are having problems. They have a child, a house and have been together for a couple years now, but have hit this recent rough patch. And he doesn’t look like he wants to go back anytime soon. He’s partying his sorrows away and reliving his youth. The man outpartied me. I had to go home so I didn’t become an adultery accomplice.
Folks are giving up on traditional marriage. Two, three or even four times over. And it’s becoming the norm.
A very close friend of mine said that folks are just giving up instead of sticking with it like they did in the past. The vow of “…til death do us part” now has an asteriks that says, “…unless I get sick of you and vice versa. My lawyer is on my phone’s speed dial.” Funny enough Time Magazine said the same thing. People now are giving up when the rough patches hit. My folks have been married for 20 some odd years and together for almost 30. I’ve seen some of the difficult times. My mom has a life-threatening illness that has at times pulled our family apart like a Milky Way. But the will and respect that they had and continue to have for each other as well as their marriage helped them stick together like that wonderful stretchy caramel. Which is the same for many happily married couples who have been together for decades.
Ladies and gentleman, can we honestly circle back and return to this kind of marriage? Is it possible that our ADD having, I want it now attitudes can sustain a life long agreement with someone that shares the same short comings? Tell me, because I don’t want to have to keep my lawyer close.
Seattle – I Only Want There to be One Mrs… – Washington
- Help Us Grow!
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“… Since birth young girls are instilled with motherly tendencies when they’re given dolls, playhouses and tea sets. They’re beat over the head with thoughts and images of life long relationships. Most, not all, already have an idea of what their wedding is going to be like…”
Hmmm…This is not true for every woman. I never had any tea sets growing up. Thoughts and images about life long relationships were never apart of my life and I am a woman that doesn’t care for marriage.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:07 am
Do you think that’s part of the reason you don’t care for it?
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Erin Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Well, there are many reasons. Too many for me to go into detail about here, but I can give you two.
1. My parents were never married and their relationship ended when I was twelve. I guess my mother felt liberated by the split because she spent practically no time with me. After the split she would come home from work and then leave back out a few hours later and hang out with her friends until one and two o’clock in the morning. I was always in the house by myself. I am no psychologist, but I feel with all of that happening your emotional self is no longer being developed. And when you have spent so much of your time alone it is quite hard, or at least for me it is to be interested in other people…
2. I don’t trust anyone. And I have been told that I am selfish, but I don’t think I am selfish. I think I am just more selective about who I share with. When you like and care about someone, then sharing comes easily, I think.
I could go on forever, but I don’t want to bore all of you with my problems, especially when no one cares really.
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shay_D_lady Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 2:27 am
why dont you care for marriage?
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Yeah I also wasn’t one of the girls who planned out her wedding and such. Nor did I play with dolls. I actually destroyed a Barbie or two in my day. hehehe. And while I still do hope to be married one day to one man forever, I’m definitely not in any rush.
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Word. I beat up my dolls.
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MaPockets Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
not meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!
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I am married and me and the hubby have been together 8 years I hate that we even have to have this discussion.
We SHOULD get back to it. We are a society that wants to have cake and eat it to. We are quick to jump into things and quick to dismiss them. More people get married now to “fix” the relationship than because the want to solidify their union and fully commit mind, body and material possessions to the other person.
You hit the nail on the head, folks are giving up on traditional marriage. … and why are they giving up
Because it’s hard. it requires work, every single day. Hell you love your momma and there are days you don’t want to deal with her either what do you think is going to happen with a spouse. People are getting married expecting the fairytale endings and then jumping ship the minute the first sign of trouble hits.
Its sad because marriage, when it works.. is a beautiful thing. I am happily married (most of the time) and I wish everyone has the chance to experience the same type of relationship at some point. Society and children especially benefit from a Healthy marriage. I think many societal ills go hand in hand with the loss of “traditional marriage and values”.. all I can say is that maybe its not for everyone but there is still a place for a traditional marriage and there are good solid ones out there that prove it.
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Reecie Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 9:47 am
they say the first 7 years are the hardest. unfortunately I have a few friends that are in hard places, ready to end it after 2 or 3 years. I’m glad I didn’t marry early but when I do, I’m gonna be dedicated to see it thru…
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ASmith Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
I co-sign all this. It’s so true that we jump into marriage for the wrong reasons and then are hella confused when it gets worse instead of better. People aren’t ready to put in that work. I guess we all think it’s supposed to be simple but I don’t know what about joining two people with two lives into one sounds simple.
The only thing worse is people who have kids to fix a relationship… but that’s another day.
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Rox Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:05 am
You echoed my thoughts exactly… I don’t even have to post now =D I’ll just comment on others. Maaaaad late too, haha
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Excellent post Seattle!
I agree with Shay-we don’t want to work on things. We’re so interested in microwave relationships and instant gratification that we go along to get along. I think one of the think the “single” ones of us need to need think about is how much work we’re willing to put in.
Beyond that, I think the game changes once you’re married-because you’re past your comfort zone into the twilight zone…
Furthermore, many of the people in our generation don’t have positive relationship role models (whose names aren’t Phillip and Vivian or Claire and Cliff).
Also, in this modern time I think we have to remember whose the head of the relationship as well as add prayer into it and remember marriage really is a three-fold cord.
Evaluate your three.
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CHeeKZ Urkel Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 8:50 am
You forgot about Carl and Harriette. George and Louise. Fancy and Jamie. Martin and Gina would be positive role models is that ninja didn’t sexual harrass his co-star.
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Joey Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Carl is gay. Nobody watches the Jeffersons in our generation (well, not on the regular anyway). Fancy and Jamie??? REALLY???
And yeah let’s go ahead and exclude Martin and Gina who got divorced…
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RightCoastLexSteele, The Muscle Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
I heard Uncle Phil was gay too. And Jamie…dude…we know…and you can’t blame it on the alcohol.
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I’m a little more optimistic on these matters. I think people – the whole big mass of us – swing from one extreme to another. I see and hear a lot more young people expressing a desire for more traditional values and stability because they didn’t have it growing up. Kids rebel, even if their rebellion leads them to be more straightlaced.
Anyway – I imagine that every person who gets married goes through a “what the he!l am I about to do?!?” phase, otherwise they wouldn’t be giving marriage the total contemplation it deserves. Don’t let your friends sway you (especially that cat who is sleeping on couches) – you grew up with a much better example.
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People don’t know how to argue anymore let alone disagree…they know how to fight and cause hell but they don’t know how to sit down and discuss problems…and they don’t know how to resolve them.
My siblings and I were raised seeing our parents have arguments but we also saw that they resolved them, no matter how long it took and NEITHER of them were sleeping on the couch or going somewhere else to sleep.
We saw our parents actively love each other, something that I don’t think a lot of people our age have seen. We saw them have fun together. We saw the imperfections though, too. No relationship is perfect so why should the ultimate connection (marriage) be? The difference is that people will work on a friendship harder than they will a marriage.
I also think that people don’t know what marriage is..too busy planning the party but fail to plan for marriage. How many folks discuss (beyond the 6 weeks or so of counseling you get from a pastor) how they want they’re marriage to be? How many people talk about how they’re going to raise children or even if they want children? How many people discuss where they want to be in five years as a unit?
I’ve seen people stay together for 8 years then get married and divorced within 2…my theory is that they spend so much time planning to get married instead of being married that when they do get married they don’t know what to expect from each other.
My fiance and I have know each other since 8th grade (16 years)…over half of our lives, dated in high school, broke up amicably to go to college and ‘explore’ (lol) , but we still remained close friends, and now we’re getting married. I act totally different with him than I have with any other relationship. I can be mad as hell with him but still want to snuggle because, to use a cliche, I’d rather be mad with him than happy with someone else….our relationship is that good. I am a different person with him, a better person with him. I find myself seeing how I react to him through his eyes, so when I say something crazy I see how it affects him and vice versa and we’re able to talk about it.
We’re not perfect either, but none of our arguments have lasted longer than a few hours or a day because we’ve learned how to open up and talk. If I’m feeling something, he allows me to get it all out..bluntly, without interrupting and then has his say so. We’ve learned that compromising doesn’t always mean you’re going to win, you’ve got to take a L sometimes and SATCHO @ZZ DOWN, lol.
Okay…I went off on a tangent but you get my meaning hopefully, lol.
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ASmith Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I followed and I think you make an excellent point about how we spend too much time planning the party.
Some people are in such a rush to get married that when they find someone who wants to marry them that’s what they focus on; probably because they’re scared that if they focus on the meat of it all, they’ll realize that either they aren’t as compatible as they thought OR (and I think this is the case with most who fall in this group) they’ll realize it’s going to take a lot more work to have the fairy tale they want, than they originally thought. Like you said, sometimes (hell, most times) you’ve gotta take the L… it ain’t all puppies and butterflies; sunshine and rainbows all the time.
Like New Edition asked… “Can You Stand the Rain?”
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(Birfday) Cheekie Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
“Like New Edition asked… “Can You Stand the Rain?””
Missy “Misdemeanor” Elliot responded with a resounding ‘no’.
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Excellent post my blogging brethren. I’m seeing a lot of the same from people with regard to marriage and…well…quitting. It’s not something I’ve seen at home, but it’s all around me. My parents were actually married for over 30 years before that “til death do us part” thing happened. I’ve seen more strain and struggle than most would believe, but I’ve also seen things get worked out because of dedication.
Even with seeing that things can be worked out, I still get a lil woozy and light-headed when I think about that level of commitment. A failed marriage to me is one of the biggest failures I can think of. I don’t want to be on a 2nd or 3rd wife before I get it right. That’s just too much damn paperwork!
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Smiley Face Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 8:18 am
‘Even with seeing that things can be worked out, I still get a lil woozy and light-headed when I think about that level of commitment.’
Slim…shouldn’t it though? I mean it’s one of the biggest ‘forever’ things that you do in life. I mean hell, it’s scary to think about being (on some level) responsible for someone else’s happiness, well being and all that good stuff. It’s not always a party and that’s scary.
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I think is was alot easier for a man to commit back in the day b/c divorce wasn’t even in option. Working things out with the person you married was what people do. It made marriage easier to shallow (pause).
Now divorce is what people do. Since its such a norm, people feel little to no shame reaching for the lawyer. Its become about individual happiness.
You want to know why men don’t want to get married:
UPDATE: Nas Ordered To Pay $40k in Support for Kelis and Child
Earlier reports of Nas having to pay over $55,000 in support have been proven false, as AllHipHop.com has confirmed the Queens emcee has been ordered to pay $39, 498.00 per month.
Nas’ lawyer Mark Kaplan requested that Kelis be paid a $20,000 payment until the September hearing, but Judge Meisinger argued that the singer was entitled to maintain her marriage lifestyle, and that the monetary judgment was commensurate with the two parties’ income filings.
Originally, Kelis reportedly was seeking $80,000 a month in total spousal and child support.
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We can go back to the good days of marriage. What people must start doing is DATING- they need to be collecting evidence that this person that you married is the one you should be with. And when you find something that you cannot deal with, LEAVE.
One of my girls just got married last month and is already pondering divorce? Why? It’s not because he cheated or anything, it’s because of things she already knew before she got married.
Women must STOP being so naive into thinking a name change will change your relationship for good. It’s so stupid.
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Smiley Face Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Exactly…women also need to own up to not being perfect about choosing who they are dating. The common denominator in your failed relationships is you. “He’s” not responsible for everything. He is not clay, you can’t mold him into something else, conversely she’s not going to automatically turn into Donna Reed either.
If you’ve mentioned to him while you’re dating that you need more time together and he doesn’t listen to you then what makes you think a ring will change it?
Stop getting your advice from TV, lol
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RightCoastLexSteele, The Muscle Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 9:55 am
I co-sign with my co-signing pen. People always think the grass is greener on the other side, just to realize once they get there that they don’t even like grass that much.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:02 am
AMEN!!!!
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:04 am
And another thing, this morning as I was getting ready for work I was watching Tori (aka heady) Spelling’s show, and she said something like before she met Dean (her husband) she had no life.. she didn’t know who she was. When he came, he showed her who she was.
And I’m sitting up here thinking, what kind of dumb -ish is this? Why would you put all of that pressure on a man? What happens (God forbid) IF he leaves?
Women must know who they are BEFORE they get into a relationship.
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Joey Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Yessir.
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Jaci Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Wow…I love her show and I think the reason why she truly feels this way is because of Liam and Stella. He essentially gave her the greatest gifts her life.
And I think past that there’s also the point where she realizes she stole him from another woman (after all, they were both happily married before)
That’s something else we really need to watch and be conscious of, how you get him is how you lose him.
Find your own blessing. Nurture it and pray for it.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Being a mommy is great and all but shouldn’t you still have you little piece of self? It’s still kinda weird to me, if she didn’t have a life/ know who she was before she was a mother.
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:54 am
“Women must know who they are BEFORE they get into a relationship”
Ain’t that the truth! However, that not only goes for woman, but also people in general need to get up on that ‘KNOWLEDGE OF SELF’ because if you don’t know you, how you expecting someone else to…
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Exactly!!!!
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ASmith Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Nicky, you’re just speaking truth all up and through here.
A) Another person doesn’t complete you. They enhance you, maybe, but if you need someone to complete you, you got huge problems.
B) You get what they give and if what they give isn’t enough, fine… but you can’t take it from them.
We do have to bring dating back. I think if we pay attention to how our dating culture has all but ceased… and now we spend time texting each other instead of going out and getting to know one another correlates with the change in marriage longevity we might be surprised (or not surprised) by the relationship. I say spend more time getting to know a person and not their body.
Good in bed does not = good in life. HAYLO.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Why thank you very much, ASmith.
and now we spend time texting each other instead of going out and getting to know one another correlates with the change in marriage longevity we might be surprised (or not surprised) by the relationship. I say spend more time getting to know a person and not their body”
And Amen! Women/ girls aren’t holding up standards and respecting themselves.. all a man has to do is be their myspace/ facebook friends and he gest all kinds of unflattering info before the first date.
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Yeah, word. Women need to stop saying yes, and men need to stop asking the damn question because of this sense of “pressure”. I currently know of 1 engagement that didn’t work out when both knew that it wouldn’t from jump, and another 2 engagements that are still in limbo because the couples think its the fix to all their crazy relationship issues. Not the move.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Exactly! If a woman is giving a man an ultimatium, he needs to be man enough to tell her to kick bricks. Now , I’m in no way advocating dating for 10 years and never getting engaged, but everyone needs to start being accountable.
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ASmith Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I know of a couple that broke off their engagement because one of them (the female) didn’t actually want to get married. She was doing it to appease her boyfriend. He knew this, but thought she’d “get over it” (and that is a direct quote).
Fail.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Major FAIL!
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I think the issue is, people leave divorce as an option. My parents were married for 28 years, until like Slim’s parents, the whole ’til death do us part’ thing happened as well.
Growing up with married parents, who were happily married, defintely changes your view on marriage. I see it as a possibility, and I also see that it takes work. People keep getting in these relationships where they really don’t know the person, or end up getting married for the wrong reasons i.e. pregnancy. It’s hard enough dealing with the same person through all their mess, let alone adding the other stresses of life on top of that. People give up, and since divorce is so common, instead of trying to work it out, they leave.
Like anything worth having, marriage takes work, I think all couples should attend marriage counseling prior to marriage, whether through church, or a counseling center or whatever.
Bottom line, you wouldn’t step into a boxing match without the proper training, don’t go into marriage without the proper training either.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:58 am
EXACTLY!!!!…Great point!!!!
“you wouldn’t step into a boxing match without the proper training, don’t go into marriage without the proper training either.”
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I am no where near marriage and honestly don’t want to get married but there are three things I think about when the topic of marriage is discussed.
recently when talking about the many men who have stepped out on their wives with my father, he responded…” isn’t it the males of the species duty to go forth and procreate?”
When my Grandfather passed away my grandmother contemplated out loud if she ever really loved him. This causes me to question has marriage ever been something solid, or has the convenience of divorce enabled people to do what their parents, grandparents and so on may have wanted to do just didn’t have the option? I feel like, like everything else their are good and bad marriages its just easier than ever to opt-out now.
money sucks. I think its the #1 thing that my young friends who are braving this marriage thing have not thought out. Getting married before you’ve braved the world as an income earning, bill paying, adult is stupid to me. My mother’s lesson to me since I was like 6 was that if my dad did something crazy she had enough money to divorce my dad and live the same lifestyle. My parents went through their ups and downs but luckily it never came to divorce at the end of the day I believe it was their independence that allowed them to have a successful marriage.
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Berriblk Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:00 am
My mother has always preached the same to me. She was one of those women who did NOT have her own, therefore she put up with alot of mess, because she felt and still feels she can’t make it on her own, my mother was born and bred in the 50’s *Dolly Parton’s Stand By Your Man plays in the background*…in the time period she was born and the country in which she came from leaving just was never an option.
When I look at my father, me being the woman and liberal feminist that I am, I would have left his ass a long time ago…or molded him from the very beginning!
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Seattle Washington Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:21 am
That’s another point I was bouncing around in my mind. The independence. The biggest complaint I hear about marriage is that you’re tied with this other person.
You think if there was some semblance of independence, short of tricking, people would be more apt to stay together?
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:01 am
There has to be a semblance of independence b/c once you begin to lose yourself and who you are, everything else will be lost as well eventually…
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Rox Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Good question Seattle, but I think that independence IS what sustains healthy marriages. My parents have been married for over 30 yrs & are hella independent. They do their own things. My dad goes on fishing trips in Alaska with his buddies, my mom drives 3 hrs to their beach house many a weekend to relax. They do many things together… dinner, movies… but maintain their individuality to the fullest.
My parents couldn’t be any more different from one another: my mom = proud & outgoing african american woman who, quite frankly, doesn’t like white ppl, my dad = easy going white man with nerdy tendencies. But they work because when it comes to their union, they see each other beyond who they are on the outside – when it comes to them individually, they respect their differences and allow each other the freedom to tend to themselves & their independent needs.
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man IDK…..I really don’t know…….
I think marriage can last between two fok who get married for the right reasons, and are dedicated to each other, and making it work, being in it to win it:
With friendship, trust, respect and mutual admiration as a foundation. Alot of marriages are devoid of GOD also and you need the LORD, whether single or married or whateva.
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My personal rule that I believe others should live by:
Men should not be married before the age of 30 and women before the age of 25.
I grew up in a two parent household, my parents will have been married 27 years this August. No, it has not been an [always] happy marriage, but it has been a strong one.
I’ve read the comments thus far and no one has mentioned one particular reason why marriage worked back then because women had little to no rights. It was not until 1972 that the supreme court bestowed ownership of the female body to the woman. Prior, it was joint ownership with the family and then once a woman got married her husband had custodial rights.
Its a matter of freewill. Most of the issues that occur today in marriage, occurred some 50 years ago, but back then women were raised to turn a blind eye and keep it together for the children [more so for their sanity]. It was unheard of and unlady like to be a divorcee. Granted their was no such thing as child support as incentive, but your reputation and your family’s name meant more.
I personally wish more people held marriage to a higher standard, so I wouldn’t have to be so pessimistic on my outlook of the ordeal. I am very idealistic, which leads me to be pessimistic…if that makes any sense. No, I don’t see marriage in my future, perhaps not until I find someone with a like-minded outlook.
Lastly, I have always found traditional girl toys to be boring and useless lol…theres only so much undressing and brushing of a dolls head a girl can take… I was always more intrigued by my brothers toys.
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Interesting point. What specifically about those ages makes or breaks the “fitness” for marriage?
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Berriblk Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
I honestly just find most men to be more “serious” at this age and more likely to know what they need as oppose to what they want and how to reconcile the two around this time as well. I do understand their are case by case bases and some men are ready at an earlier age and some men just never get it… but the mean age I’ve come up with is 30.
Women on the other hand have the biological clock (if it weren’t for that I would’ve made it 30 for them as well). Women tend to mature a little earlier than their male counterparts, so I believe 25 to be their mean age.
Side-note: I was once told by an older guy that the perfect age distance between a man and a woman is 7 years… how true that is is definitely debatable… he was kind of nutty anyway.
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I think the issue is two fold. Women are getting married b/c its part of their master plan. Men are getting married just to keep the chick around. In both situations no one is getting married for the intrinsic value of the marriage itself. I think that that is an issue.
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Jaci Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:43 am
And the intrinsic nature of it is something we really need to watch for…
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Erin Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Master plan?
What is this master plan you speak of, because I sure don’t have one?
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Slim Jackson Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I know the masterplan.
When I was in college, there were chicks who would sit there and have their life laid out. That’s not a bad thing, but when they put “get married by 26″ on their to-do list, that’s a problem. So I think he’s referring to that overall plan that a lot of women lay out for themselves. Correct me if I’m wrong bruh.
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i want to get married and have children (3 to be exact). the reason why i’m not married and don’t have kids is because i’m going to make the sure the woman i marry is the woman i truly want to spend the rest of my life with. i’m really not a fan of divorce, unless its something like abuse.
i’m not scared to get married, i just need to be sure that the one i marry is really the one. after that i don’t think i will have problems (as far as committements go).
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If I never have the opportunity to certify a union I would hope that the relationship I am blessed with is one of unconditional love, compassion and understanding. If I want the frills of a wedding reception I’ll go throw me a damn party and I’ll act a damn fool in a white dress, yes I will.
As you can tell I’ve given up on this issue….meaning that I refuse to pull the reins tight or coerce any man I’m with into believing that the way to prove your love & commitment to me is to give me a gold band and throw me a party. I am not opposed to the idea of marriage but it’s something that WE should both genuinely want.
I grew up with an aunt and uncle who never married and are still together to this day…I have nothing but happy memories being around them..never once did I feel the need to ask why they were never got married because the union was just that tight. So my point? Certificate or no certificate it’s the connection & union that’s really important..well to me at least
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Excellent passage Starbucks!!
I think couples need to understand that marriage is WORK!!!! Its pretty much another occupation you have added on to your bag of responsibilities.
A married man of 25 years told me this about marriage. “Marriage is literally incorporating that person’s life into your life” Simple statement but I definitely digested it into the affect that it IS WORK!!!
I think women are too focused on the vanity of parts of being married and that is get the House, the 2.5 kids, the wedding ceremony w/ fam from west bubble f**K!
I think men are just not geared for marriage, period! I’m sure there are some men out there that are willing to go with literally handing their lives away. But marriage is overrated!!
If you dont believe me about marriage being overrated ask someone who works at City Hall and handles marriage certificates, you’d be surprised at how often they create contracts/certificates and at the same time disposing of them…
OVERRATEDD!!!
-BBW aka I LIKE MY LIFE NOW!!
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SaveDaBlackFam Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:36 am
You sound a little bitter on the idea? Have you been Married Before??? Have you been in a long term relationship and worked at it??? Relationships alone are work and getting through the ups/downs are even more work.
I wanna hear more thoughts from people who have been in serious relationships. Like REAL DEAL relationships. The floor has now been open THOUGHTS
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Hahahah…no ma’am…never married before but I have seen people take marriage like the “pass the note moment”….check ‘yes’ if you like me…check ‘no’ if you don’t…lol.
But it really is overrated right now. I think it has to do with the fact that women worry to much about their other counterparts. ‘Don’t be disillusioned by other people’s schedules’ as my mentor put it. If you aren’t ready to get married then you’re not ready. I’ve seen dudes buckle from the pressures of their girl, their fam
and the girls family.
I just think people now, are more focused on the good parts of marriage rather than the behind the scene parts….
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Erin Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I don’t need to be married to have a nice house.
Having nice things and knowing you have obtained them all on your own feels way better than having someone give it to you.
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ildolceamore Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
This comment is so angry…
Marriage/angry…sounds about right.
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Also I wanna say we do not and should not get married for love.
We should get married for something far greater.
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Peyso was blocked from 3 ways for 2 weeks Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:46 am
what’s greater than love?
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:47 am
I was gonna ask that too? you mean it gets more complicated? lol
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Nothing. But it can’t be the only thing you marry for. Image a bunch of love with no compassion, or someone who can’t communicate, or someone who can’t pick up after themselves or be responsible for things. Or loving someone who you can’t really trust. If you have ever been in love and broken up with that someone for whatever reason, you should have an idea of why love ain’t enough.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 10:51 am
WHAT!?!….I second Peyso’s question
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Oooh I was wondering if someone would allude to this. I certainly think love should be a part of it, but taking that next step should be about more than that. You have to think about what will remain when the love fades. (It’s naive to think that it won’t.) It takes more than love to sustain a long-term relationship, so if that’s all you have…
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Joey Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:10 am
This is kinda my point… I mean I think love is important, but I heard a quote once (in a Marianne Pearl interview) that always made sense to me…
“Love is not two people looking into each other’s eyes, but two people standing side by side looking into the same direction.”
It’s to say love isn’t enough in itself. You also have to have the same goals, values, and view of life and the future. Love is too unconstant. You have to base your marriage on something unchanging (like God).
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Seattle Washington Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:18 am
OK, I can’t take it anymore. There’s been a lot of mention of God and marriage here.
For those not immersed in religion, is there anyway to be successfully married without being a devout follower of a religion?
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:20 am
yes…i notice a lot of Jesus-isms today…you bring it out in ppl seattle lmaooooo
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Reecie Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:31 am
But God is love, so I agree with your point and still think you can base your marriage on love (just not love alone). I still don’t know of anything greater than love.
I really liked that quote about being side by side looking in the same direction. Also, I don’t think love-even in the romantic sense fades totally, but I do think it has its ups and downs. its up to you to revive it from time to time so its not totally lost in the relationship.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am
I don’t think you necessarily need to have the same goals, values, and view of life and the future. And even if people do have all these things, I don’t think that necessarily puts their marriage in a position to be more successful.
Granted, your view is your view and I’m glad you contribute so much to this website but I think yours is one that will prolly be predictably co-signed by those who wake up early on Sunday…which is cool, great, dandy, etc.
*sigh* I’m going to Hell.lol. I’ma have to fly Jet Bluefire
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Joey Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:46 am
I said LIKE GOD… Because that is what I plan to base my marriage on… But I gave other examples there too, love… Like values, morals, beliefs, vision of the future, etc… If you love someone who wants to be a stripper and you want to be a lawyer… Love can only take you so far… is my point.
Stop shuttering at the word GOD. It is what it is if you reject/deny religion. The point remains. WHATEVER you believe in should be common.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:53 am
LOL…I’m gonna take it back to Catholic school days…The 7 Sacraments ….one of them is Matrimony
Whether you like it or not Marriage is tied to God…Thats like referring to PB&J and dismissing the bread…its not mention but its definitely a part of it
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Joey Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I didn’t say you ONLY need those things either… I said you should have them, along with love, and a desire to be married. I don’t think any are mutually exclusive.
And Slim, when you say things like “blah blah blah blah BUT blah blah blah” it completely negates the first part of your sentence (by rule of grammar).
My views are very different from that of “traditional” religious views actually. And not everything comes back to God. All our talks of race relations, relationships, and even homosexuality (which i cosign for gay rights) I tend to separate my views from those of the church. My post below doesn’t even mention God.
FURTHERMORE, NO SH^T MY OPINIONS ARE INFLUENCED BY MY BELIEFS. HOW THE HECK ELSE DOES ONE FORM AN OPINION EXCEPT TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT EVERYTHING THAT MAKES US WHO WE ARE, PARTICULARLY THINGS THAT ARE THE FUNDAMENTAL OF OUR BEING. I can’t help but notice all your opinions are predictably cosigned by “non religious” males. Big deal.
I’m a peaceful person.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
‘I can’t help but notice all your opinions are predictably cosigned by “non religious” males.’
Slow down…please don’t generalize
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Slim Jackson Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
@Joey
Really though? No need for the hostility. Nobody is questioning or belittling your beliefs or anything like that. I was just pointing out a pattern that I see, which happens to speak to a bigger issue. In prefacing my statement with “blah blah blah”, I was trying to be non-hostile and avoid the flurry of unpleasantries (yep, made up word) that it seems came about anyway. How bout we drop it and go to a new thread?
Besides, if I’m shuddering every time the word God is mentioned, doesn’t that make me God fearing in some roundabout way? Ya see! We’re on the same side! Next thread please…
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Joey Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Errr… ummm… Bruce… I was generalized in a major way in the first place. I was simply pointing out that a lot of what Slim says is cosigned by that particular group, much like he said everything I say is cosigned by Bible-hugging church-goers. But you’re right, I could have left that statement out. It was a last-minute bitter addition.
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Joey Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
i wasn’t hostile. i didn’t curse or anything (note the sensors). my caps lock key just got stuck, and i couldn’t release it. very common problem on keyboards. so sad.
okay. next thread.
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Jaci Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I think marriage is more than love, because you have to be prepared to teach that person too…help them learn new things about the world, so it’s also patience.
I think you have to be prepared to bear some of their shortcomings…you know the things they’re not so good at…and that requires strength.
For some of you as men, you might need her to hold the fort down and will require endurance and fortitude and the patience and strength mentioned above…
And it requires faith..and attention…it’s a lot to put your life and heart in some one else’s hands trusting that they won’t break it.
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I am feelin this reply, thanks for clarifying
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Jaci Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
thanks…for some reason it’s a topic i’m really feeling…i’m going to be covering black marriage in america next week…i might have to use some of the above comment (plus black married man/woman advice)
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I agree with a lot of the reasons for divorce aforementioned, and I wanted to share another point of view.
One of the reasons I think marriage fails so often in our society (as opposed to in the past) is because we watch these fairy tales of things working between people from completely different walks of life (education, religion, socioeconomic status, etc), and think that things will work just fine in those situations, despite the added chaos and confusion when those differences are present.
Hear me out…
The most successful marriages in the entire world (as far as divorce and infidelity are concerned) are arranged marriages. Yes, I acknowledge that a lot of these are in societies where women are oppressed and have no rights to divorce, but in our society, I actually think it makes sense. I mean, in the past (when marriages lasted), it’s just the way things were.
I’m not saying we should all let our parents arrange our marriages, but I am saying we should consider their advice a lot more than we do. Because chances are, they will look for things we fail to see (like compatability of values) because THEY KNOW where the difficulties arise in marriage. We tend to do the COMPLETE opposite of what our parents would have for us, and I think we pay for it in the end.
One day (during one of our Daddy/daughter trips to Philly) when I had low spirits about some idiot who dumped me, it dawned on me that I’ve never even asked my Dad his opinion on the guys I date (nor did I want it). So I said “Dad… I just want you to know that I value your opinion. I have a sticky suspicion you hated all the guys who treated me like SH^T in the past, and if I had just listened to you, I could have avoided a lot of heartache. So… If you meet someone (and in his line of work, he definitely meets them) that you think would make a good (or better than most, since no one is good enough for me in your eyes) match for me, send em my way.”
And a week later, he literally sent this guy who works for him to my door. At first I was like WHAT. A. NERD. But then… I dunno, I started to see what my Dad sees in him, and I also started to notice underneath the bottle-caps and suspenders (okay, he didn’t have on suspenders yall), he was actually quite handsome as well. It took me by surprise. And even though we’re just friends (cuz we live across the country from one another), when i think if I were to marry someone right now, someone that I think I’d be perfectly compatable in values, goals, beliefs, education, religion, (not SES, but whatever), etc, and that the marriage would actually last with… He’s the first person that comes to mind.
All because I took my Dad’s opinion for once. Might even call it an arranged relationship of sorts… And why not?? I think it would spare a lot of us a lot of heartaches, and yes, perhaps even divorce, if we just asked ourselves “What would (insert parent) do??”
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BlueFlame Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 11:52 am
“…we should consider their advice a lot more than we do. Because chances are, they will look for things we fail to see (like compatability of values) because THEY KNOW where the difficulties arise in marriage. We tend to do the COMPLETE opposite of what our parents would have for us, and I think we pay for it in the end.”
I completely agree…but some people aren’t blessed to have both of their parents present in their lives…which in turn is adding to the cycle of lost souls who are looking for love in all the wrong the places because they are so desperate to fill that void. I’ve been blessed to see and learn from my parents marriage (25 years in August!) and my grandparents marriage (51 years in October). So i know what to look for in a potential life mate. (But i am 23 right now and I’m REALLY not looking for that at the moment…im not ready!) So marriage is important in that sense bc it is amazing how your parents relationship (or lack thereof) affects the decisions we make in life…
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ildolceamore Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I must cosign the arrange marriage shout out. I’m a product of one, and it’s been traced back in my ancestry 7 generations.
My parents weren’t always happy, but they always made it work. I learned a lot about love, compromise, and genuine compassion from watching my parents make it work.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Joey, I forgot to agree with you. My bad homie.
The statement you made about your parents knowing best is very true and hits home. I’ve brought several women home to meet the folks. My dad, my top confidant and adviser, never offered his opinion on the girls in question. Probably because he didn’t want to distort my view of said girls.
It wasn’t until recently that I brought one home and Pops said to me, without any type of goading, “Yeah. I like her.”
Of course, dude knows what he’s talking about. And in this case, he waited to offer commentary until I was ready to hear it. Sounds like your dad is the same way.
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The #1 reason marriages fail: the wrong people are getting married, and they make marriage look bad.
More of my response to come after I finish my boring work!
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Tramayne Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Chocolate Vixen: I agree that the wrong people get married. We treat relationships like cars, test driving for a short while before we make any major decisions. Problem is, the test drive only lasts for about 5 mins. That’s about as long as it takes to feel really good about it and of course, (unless your accustomed to finding yourself among a series of unfortunate events) you’ll avoid experiencing any major issues. That’s why so many people, unknowingly, end up with lemons.
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A friend and I were having this discussion, and he said something that really stuck out to me. He said that it was his duty as a man to eventually get married and have kids. He said that his role as a man would not be complete if he did not get married and procreate. (Mind you he wasn’t talking about right now, but years down the road.) I was wondering if other men felt this way? I had never really tied my role as a woman to getting married and having kids…now I want to get married and have kids (in that order) eventually, but at the same time, I wouldn’t feel that I did not complete my “role” as a woman if i didn’t get married and pop out some babies…
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Berriblk Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Many of the men I come across feel the same way. It may be the fact that my disdain for marriage comes up and they find it contrary for a woman to have such a belief, but most of the men I know feel its a natural progression in their life. I was beginning to think the days of the runaway groom were gone…clearly its just not a gene all guys carry.
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It’s my birfday so I know I want to wriiiiite this:
Women being independent and ish nowadays lead me to believe that YA’LL ninjas are becoming the ol’ ball and chain. Especially if said woman has been scorned before.
Anyhow, I would love to revel in the beauty that is marriage. Especially Black marriage. Because Black love makes me all warm and tingly. And yes, I would have to work hard at it, but that’s what let’s me know it’s worth it.
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
happy bday cheekie!!!!
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(Birfday) Cheekie Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Thank ya, darlin’!
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ASmith Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Happy Happy Birthday!
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(Birfday) Cheekie Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Thank you so much!
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Berriblk Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
I concur
Happy Birthday as well.
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(Birfday) Cheekie Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Grazie!
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I’ve skimmed through all the comments here, so forgive me if I’m being repetitive or a copy cat.
I think that our society had grown accustomed to abusing certain freedoms, i.e. our freedom of choice. We’re all taught to value our options more than our efforts.
From the age when the opposite [or same] sex becomes a serious concern to us, we’re told to keep our options open. So in our quest to find “the one”, we’re sifting through groups of two, three, four or more, which completely undermines the foundation that a good relationship is supposed to be built on.
There’s no way you can really get to know a person (at least not in the way you should to have a properly functioning relationship) when your attention is spread between them and countless others. Not to mention, the bug in our ear that tells us to guard our emotions and mistrust anyone who tries to make us feel vulnerable.
Most importantly, we’re missing an important lesson about the most valuable component in a relationship: COMMITMENT.
The reason why so many relationships fail is because that link, commitment, is missing, or misunderstood, between two people.
That word is used so carelessly these days that its meaning has been distorted and its purpose has become futile. I think some of the biggest misconceptions about what it means to be committed are that you can be committed to more than one person at a time and that a commitment is breakable. You can’t and its not.
I think that its possible to reinstate the institution of marriage in our society and that its possible to have a successful relationship despite the statistics. It just takes a little, well a lot of, redefining and practice of the principles that comprise of definition of a successful relationship/marriage.
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Im not scared of marriage, but I want to be sure before I make that move. I don’t live with regrets, and a bad marriage is one of the biggest regrets to have!
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Chocolate Vixen: I agree that the wrong people get married. We treat relationships like cars, test driving for a short while before we make any major decisions. Problem is, the test drive only lasts for about 5 mins. That’s about as long as it takes to feel really good about it and of course, (unless your accustomed to finding yourself among a series of unfortunate events) you’ll avoid experiencing any major issues. That’s why so many people, unknowingly, end up with lemons.
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Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason why we don’t take marriage seriously is because we no longer take dating seriously? Over the past decade or so, we have argued over who is going to pay and how soon we should start having sex. Dudes have stated, unapologetically that they will not even consider a girl who does not have a fat booty or some triple Es. Quite simply, we have stopped looking for companions and have started settling for F@*k buddies.
Kelis and Nas are in trouble because he tried to turn a hoe into a housewife. But can you blame him?
Many Americans haven’t had a constant example of a solid marriage. I can’t tell you how many times people have asked me if my parents are still together, and when I say yes, they go, “For REAL? WOW!”
I watched my parents struggle to stay together for years, and I mean struggle. There were times when I would beg them to divorce, but it was clear that they had agreed up front to be committed to one another and their children. My parents have been married for 26 years, and they still have their moments, but it is clear that they would rather be miserable together than happy apart. My parents are best friends and know each other better than anyone else.
And that is what I know Love to be. I was not raised in a particularly religious family. But I was raised by parents who communicate with each other, no matter how painful the topic. If it needs to be said, then it’s said. If they disagree, and something needs to be done, then they compromise… or my Dad wins out.
I am one of those girls one would describe as a SIBW, and watching my parents growing up, I would cringe at the idea that a man would be able to wear the pants and make the decisions in our marriage. Over time I have come to believe this: If I love this man, and I trust this man, then he WILL be someone who respects me, trusts me, communicates with me and is willing to compromise if we disagree. I don’t mind having my dude take the lead in our relationship, because he should be my friend, partner, and confidant. We should be able to have the hard conversation and consult each other no matter what. When I am looking for a man to marry, THAT is what I am looking for.
So yeah… DON’T do it! Unless you can truly say that you are doing it for all the right reasons.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
“Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason why we don’t take marriage seriously is because we no longer take dating seriously?”
Excellent question. Perhaps the QOTD. I hadn’t thought about that before, but it seems like that makes a lot of sense when looking at how these marriages are disintegrating. It seems a lot more people are just focused on having fun, doing them, or getting into something that’s convenient.
I actually take the relationship process pretty seriously sans the extra emo. No sense in putting a title on something if you don’t want it to go any further than the bedroom.
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Berriblk Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
I concur… Maybe i take it too seriously, which is why I have never had a “boyfriend”…thats beside the fact that I just cringe at labels period lol.
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F*ck Marriage!!
Naw … I’m just joking.
I actually had thought about the same thing awhile ago. I don’t know if the invention of being single and 40, eHarmony, and Plenty Of Fish have just got everyone always thinking its easier to divorce and start over, but there really is a lack of commitment to vows and marriage now.
I plan to marry once and only once. Weddings are expensive and too much work. Also, got no desire to pay child support or alimony.
Seattle … I feel you (super pause)!
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Here’s my advice for everyone.
If you’re single…don’t get married
If you’re married…get divorced.
If you’re divorced…be happy you’re not married.
I think i’ve done my part for commentary. What a good way to end the evening everyone.
Toodles
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