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The Fine Line of Womanhood
It’s no secret that Slim and I are members of historically Black Greek organizations. As a result, we often get links to trivial, humorous and sometimes insightful articles that pertain to Black Greek life. This past week, I saw some Boys in Blue “swag surfin” at a stroll competition as well as gained more insight as to what my fraternity is doing for community service this month. You see the range is quite wide. But for every five YouTube videos that a brother sends me, there’s one article that actually deserves my utmost attention. I got one such article from my boy CEPM which discussed a certain sorority’s intake membership. Nothing to do with hazing or the usual intake chatter, quite a unique circumstance actually. The organization discussed brought in a member of the transgender community.
It’s an interesting article, but I know Black people don’t like to read so I’ll give a quick synopsis. He* was originally born a female, but he wanted to referred to as a male. No operation, just a gender identity that he wanted to assume as his own. The person in question became intrigued by a historically Black sorority and in turn pledged and crossed. After the letters were on his chest, all hell broke loose. Sisters became enraged at his persistence of being referred to and dressing as a male. As a result, they tightened regulations and he felt ostracized and discriminated. For more details, please check out the link above. Now, there’s a couple things that raised some questions for me so I wanted to see your opinion on it.
Should A Transgender Individual Be Allowed To Pledge A Sorority?
Now, in this case a woman who donned the identity of a male decided to pledge a sorority because she felt a kinship in sisterhood. However, he sees herself as a man. That feels contrary to me because if he personifies himself as a male than he just be treated as one. No men are allowed to pledge a sorority, they would be pointed down the road to fraternity row and handed an application. Therefore, the same principles should be applied to him.
On the other hand, you have males that see themselves as women. Since they are adopting a female gender identity should they be allowed into sororities?
Should the Sorority in Question Accepted Him?
From what I read in the article, it seemed like the sisters held a misconception on what exactly he was and wanted to be depicted as. While they saw a woman in the physical form, they didn’t realize that his gender identity was quite contrary. I don’t feel that they knew what they were doing in accepting a transgender person, they probably thought he was just a tom boy. So in my opinion, when they began to have regulations and strong guidelines for him to follow in my opinion it was out of line. If you accept a person as is, then you must deal with your decision.
So Where’s the Line?
I’m sure the situation discussed in this article is just the beginning of many more to come. While transgender males may feel uneasy approaching a fraternity as we they already have an underlying physical nature to the process, I could see more transgender males and females attempting to find a home within a sorority. And is that right or wrong? What do my Greek sisters out there have to say about this? And fellas, how would you feel about this transgender male in question trying to get down with your frat?
Seattle – Just Don’t Get Reckless With Your Comments – Washington
*Doing my best to refer to the person in question as a he out of respect for the person we’re discussing.
56 Responses to “The Fine Line of Womanhood”
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I have no clue!!!!
I am not in a soror, but my bf is a Kappa, so I know how seriously you guys take that kinda thing.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 9:29 am
I was going to make a Kappa joke, but this isn’t the appropriate time… Catch me tomorrow.
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Tunde Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 10:09 am
rotf. yeah a couple of jokes could be made here.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 10:33 am
I make the jokes all the time yaw.
Before him, I couldn’t stand the Kappas. If he had have told me initally, we wouldn’t have been dating now… that came out a couple of weeks later.
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Peyso will kuffi smack you Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
so he’s ya boyf now huh?
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RightCoastLexSteele, Blouse an Skirt Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
A nupe…really tho?
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
oh yes. lol…
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Yes baybeh (wkct: Plies)…. I said that yesterday.
U still my eboo though.
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I read this joint last week and I still dont know how to take it (PAUSE).
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Seattle Washington Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 9:40 am
I’m perplexed myself, that’s why I had to throw this out there.
While the smaller topic at hand might be easier to rationalize, the bigger issue of transgenders pledging an gender specific organization leaves a lot to be discussed…
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I’m not a sorority girl, either, however I just want to commend you for posting this. It is an extremely controversial topic and it’s refreshing to see an intelligently written perspective on this. I understand your logic that if he had a gender identify of a male (even though physically he is female), then why not try to rush a frat since that is the “male” thing to do. It’s kind of one of those issues where you wonder “where should we (as a greek org) draw the line?” If you won’t let a transgendered person join your org because they physically are not the “right” gender, then will you allow a homosexual or bisexual individual rush? How about someone of another race (for the historically black frats)? I know at my school, there are often one or two people of another race that rush the black frats, but I guess I wouldn’t know or have never heard about a homosexual or transgender joining the frat.
Another interesting thought is that transgendered people often face a lot of difficulty in the workplace around which restroom to use. I’ve read scenarios in HR magazines and such about someone going through and completing the operation and then going to that appropriate rest room only to be faced with complaints from other employees that they feel very uncomfortable. It’s definitely a difficult call either way.
Again, kudos to you Seattle! I’m impressed!
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Seattle Washington Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Thanks for the compliments Steph. Much appreciated.
Pledging gay or bisexuals is a whole another topic that hasn’t been discussed in the open. No pun intended. It happens though. I don’t know one org that doesn’t have gay members. Yeah, you too.
With that said, I was just mentioning to RCLS offline that while homosexuality is openly discussed and becoming more of a normality in every day life, transgender issues are still brushed aside. That’s evident in what you’re saying about offices complaining about restroom usage.
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Steph Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
As someone else pointed out below, greek orgs are not equal opportunity so I suppose they can discriminate if they wish.
Interesting topic! I’d like to hear more about the pledging gay/bisexuals.
I wonder if any GLBT greek orgs have been started on any campuses. Hmm…
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ife1love Reply:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:21 am
I know of one… Delta Lambda Phi is a national fraternity for Gay, Bisexual, and Progressive men. I don’t know if there are any sororities or Black greek orgs that are specifically targeted at LGBT people.
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ife1love Reply:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:26 am
The restroom thing is no joke. At my PWU there was a whole year-long program to increase the number of single stall bathrooms on campus to make things easier for trans students. One of the architecture classes did a survey of campus and created a map of all the single stalls on campus.
In MD there’s a big issue now in Montgomery County (the bougie white suburbs of DC) where these organizations are trying to stop the passage of legislation that would make it easier for Trans people to use the restroom of the gender they identify with. The opponents to the legislation have this big scare campaign where basically they moms that big scary men are going to come in the ladies room and molest their daughters. It’s real messed up.
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I’m going to be honest. I would not allow a man who identified as a woman to join my chapter. Though identifying as a woman, biologically he is still a man. I don’t know how much I would’ve been able to see “her” as my sister.As for a woman identifying as a man, it’s a little harder to say no. As a line and a chapter, the conversation would have to be very honest and all involved would have to be able to respect each other, for the good and bad. If they can get there, sisterhood could truly be taken to a new level.
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Reecie Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 9:50 am
I agree totally. also, I feel like something was lacking in the screening process. why select a female that identifies as male in the first place? then get mad about it? if you did all you needed to do in your selection, this wouldn’t have even taken place….
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Vanessa aka Miss V Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
i also feel like the person in question was a bit deceiving when she applied. based on the article, the person wrote that she was lesbian, which is completely different from saying that she identifies as male. i think the result would have been different if the sorority members knew that information.
i’m not in a sorority, but i imagine that these transgender issues never entered the minds of the founders of the black greek organizations. with that said, i think it’s problematic for a transgendered person to join a frat or sorority if they don’t identify with the gender of that organization. i mean, most of these organizations focus on programs geared towards the advancement/development of the specific gender, so to me, it doesn’t make sense to be a spokesperson for these programs if you don’t identify with that group.
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Very good topic…It’s a slippery slope, either way, there will most likely be someone unhappy. I want to point out the difference between the terms “male” and “female” as opposed to “woman” and “man.” Male and female refer to genetics, and can never be changed. Even if born male, and you have a sex change operation to become a woman, you can never change your Y chromosome for an X. Woman and man (boy or girl) refer to socially constructed roles that we exhibit/display, being woman or man can be changed simply by the behavior you exhibit. Even though I know people use these terms interchangeably, they are not.
I am not in any sorority, but I wonder if membership is limited to “females” or “women” exclusively b/c that would make a big difference. If it specifically states female, then it should not matter what she wants to be called b/c it would be about how you were born. If otherwise, then people like him, should not be allowed entry. If it is silent on the matter, then they should allow males, females, women and men ( but I doubt they are silent on the matter).
In this situation, I think they should accept him as he is b/c they knew what was up and extended membership. Even though the leadership is different now, they should allow him to be himself. It’s only fair, and it’s not like he just sprung it on them after crossing.
However, if as a female you identify socially as a man, then I wonder why someone who is a man, would want to join an organization for females who socially identify as women. That seems odd, forgive me if I sound judgmental, I’m just perplexed by this. However, I understand that if he wanted to join a fraternity, he probably would not be allowed. A very complex situation indeed.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 10:42 am
I can only speak for my sorority, but the line is drawn at “women” not females.
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Ash Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 11:39 am
LOL! Yes, females can come in all forms. Some are ladies, others are WOMEN.
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Kind of related, I read something, re the Transgendered America’s Next Top Model, who recently got engaged…anyways, I don’t personally know anyone that’s Transgendered, or identifies with the opposite sex, etc. Nor am I in a sorority, however I know a lot of men & women who have pledged, and it seems there would be a fine line between “sisterhood” and “brotherhood”, however, no matter which way you look at it it’s discrimination.
Just think, ethnic minorities have always been excluded from different organizations and social clubs based on race,
This discrimination is just a different form…it’s based on what society thinks the person should be…
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Confused and Lost Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Comparing the initial reaction of, not want a transgender individual in a gender specific organization, to the discrimination that ethnic minorities have and do face is interesting to say the least.
I have to agree with Sowhattiff, and say that I also would not be comfortable with having a transgender individual in my chapter. In part a sorority is based on the notion of both sex and gender. Why work to become someone’s “sister”, only then to turn, and ask that you be addressed and referred to in masculine terms? Am I to then call you brother? Doesn’t that take away from the “sisterhood” aspect? The notion that as women, we share a psychological and physiological connection? A connection a transgender individual does not necessarily associate with.
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Diva Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 11:16 am
I know it’s not the same, but I think the overall arching theme, is this person found an organization that he identified with and wanted to be a part of. Maybe the organization embodied the values, goals, that they wanted to take part in.
For example: Maybe a white person didn’t find any other frats or sororities that they identified with, except a black one, so therefore they pledged…because that organization had what they were looking for & what they would be proud to represent…
I don’t agree or disagree, just playing devils advocate,
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Just A Thought Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I know you are playing devil’s advocate, but I think it takes away from the struggle for equal treatment by racial minorities and the GLBT community when you try to equate their issues. Discrimination is wrong, and we don’t have to conflate the distinct (or even intersectional) issues that face the separate groups in order to combat said issues.
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When I read this article a while back, I struggled because I felt judgmental. But I think any person presenting him or herself to a frat or sorority sorta has to anticipate the hesitation. All the comments have “confusion” as an underlying sentiment. And granted, there are some things we just won’t understand, but I think this situation forces us to try to fit too many round pegs of our concepts of sex and gender roles into new squares holes that contradict tradition
and understanding.
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I’m a tad confused. So the person in question was born a girl but wishes to be referred to as a male?
If this is the case technically the young man should be accepted b\c he is a woman and hasn’t legaly changed her gender to male.
Now in reality I cosign in part with Remi. Even if you change your gender legally your chromosomes are still the same. So whatever you were born as is what you are. This is my personal belief, but this is a fine line for me because I have a transgender student. Born Yosan but wishes to be referred to as Yasmin and dresses like a girl. Students already torment him and to add to it the parents have demanded that he be called Yosan and referred to as male. They don’t want us to “encourage his behavior”. It’s a tricky situation. Do i oblige the student’s request and refer to him as a girl, which clearly makes him happy or follow the parents? Still trying to figure it out. hard to leave my personal beliefs out of this one.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 10:30 am
From what I got from the article, you are exactly right – person X was born as a female, but assumed the gender identity of a man.
That’s interesting you say that, I did a lil research and transgender people can still be transgender without the surgery. So in essence, he’s a dude according to the law. Especially since he’s over the age of 18 and independent.
The case of your student is interesting since he’s a minor. Factor in your own beliefs and you have quite the conundrum. Good luck. Please keep us posted on that student.
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this is a sensitive subject but in my book its pretty clear cut.
i dont want a female who identifies as a man joining my chapter. its a fraternity because its meant for men. if a woman wants to join a bglo then she should join a sorority.
also based off of steph’s comments i wouldn’t really want someone who is not ethnic to join my chapter. its a black greek lettered organization. heavy emphasis on BLACK. if an openly gay man wanted to join my chapter i would love to say that i wouldn’t discriminate. but in reality i don’t really know because that has never happened.
**i remember in undergrad there was this dude that was 2 years behind me. he identified himself as a woman and acted and dressed as such. he tried to attend an AKA rush and said that he was a legacy so they couldn’t deny him. i guess my ex at the time had a heavy influence on intake and she was beside herself. funny thing is we went to the same high school and he was in the same grade as my brothers. his senior year in high school he was an all county line backer (doesn’t really add to the story but i found that kind of funny).**
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WOW…judging from everyone’s response to this entry thus far, we are all confused. I think I’m more confused and stuck than trying to describe the color yellow to a blind person that has never seen it before. This is bugged!!
The members within chapter should be on the hot seat for this one. I could only imagine the reaction of their National Headquarters. SMH!!
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When I first heard about this, I was very perplexed why someone who chose to identify as male, to join the “brotherhood” of men, would want to join a sorority. The longing for “sisterhood” inevitably speaks to a desire to belong to a community of women, which would seem to be in conflict with a desire to identify as a man. I am in no position to dictate how someone identifies, and I would never tell someone how to do so. On the other hand, the guy who pledged is not consistent in how he wants to be received. He made a choice to belong to a community that he’s previously rejected. I do not think he should have been extended membership. But, since I’m not in a sorority, I can’t tell anyone how to run their ship.
I wonder if fear of legal action prompted his acceptance in the sorority.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Great point.
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Wow. This is indeed a slippery slope. Frozen over with ice.
In my opinion, I couldn’t let a transgendered person into my chapter. You are who you are. Fraternities are for men. Sororities are for women. And I don’t mean that in a discriminating way at all. But greek life is supposed to be a selective thing. We have selection processes to find the candidates that will uphold our ideals, ie Brotherhood. It isn’t a neighborhood club. For *him to get on line and pledge a Sorority, it tells me that they didn’t do something during the selection process. Say we let a transgendered woman who identifies as a man into my frat. What’s to say that a few months later, this person decides that now they want to be identified as a woman now? What imma do now, huh? Now you might have a situation where you have a woman walking around on campus wearing letters and other chapters or Bros thinking that one of the Bros is letting his girl sport his letters on campus.
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Shawn Smith Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 11:28 am
I agree.
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Peyso will kuffi smack you Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
I just want to clear up the name of that chapter. I am not a Sigma but I did meet some of them Zetas and they just thought she was a butch lesbian (i hope that term is not offensive). I’ve met butch lesbians in every sorority except AKAs.
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ife1love Reply:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Oh, they’re out there… I’ve met a couple lol.
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WithRainbowSprinkles Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
I support. Fraternal organizations are not equal opportunity. We’re allowed to discriminate. I also don’t vote for ugly people or fat people or skinny people who jiggle or people who may have flirted with or sexed my ex-boyfriend…just kidding…kinda.
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Just A Thought Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
You could have never joined a frat or sorority at any HBCU. Especially the part about people who may have flirted with or sexed your ex BF.
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First I will be honest. Before I clicked the link my first thought was, “Please oh please don’t let it be my frat”.
Then my second thought was this…..
There is such an organization out there that is facing this problem with men wanting to join a sorority.
http://i10media.com/news/?p=84
Here is my issue. She (and I don’t men to disrespect but we are talking about a woman) joined because she felt sisterhood. Key word is sister, meaning woman. I don’t quite understand why she would think it would be ok to be in a female gender organization, wear the letters, and want to portray herself as a man.
She should know better. She should know that there will be some major blow back of members outside of the local chapter.
I have no problem of a person of a different race joining my organization. Hell, some of them are better members than the traditional black ones.
I agree with what Remi stated “as a female you identify socially as a man, then I wonder why someone who is a man, would want to join an organization for females who socially identify as women.”
I would have been more impressed if she created an organization for opposite gender identity people.
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Satya Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
I’m not in a sorority and if you know me i’m not crazy about the aforementiond sorority, however, i am upset for them. Most of the members of my family who completed college are members of bglo and take pride in their organizations and taught the young bucks to respect them. these men and women “alternate frats and sororities” are not cool.
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Sam Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Yea that can be a problem in some peoples eyes. I’ve seen pics of those kinda things floating around but that video. Wow. I will probably never understand why a guy would wanna pledge AKA like they do. Different strokes for different folks (no pun intended)
But on another note, I heard a story about a chapter in my home state who had a guy pledge and afterwards switch it up. He did all the normal stuff most interest did. He had a normal selection process just like the others on his line. He acted “normal” while online and in his interactions with everyone. THEN the minute he crossed he acted flamboyantly gay. Like over the top. Its kinda an interesting thing because no one knew the kid before he got online. He acted like any other heterosexual college kid would a appear to act while getting to know the bros and such. Then wham! Mind you, MOST bros didn’t have a problem with him being gay. But everybody had a problem with how he did it. He practically hid it from everyone. Now, I dunno if he would’ve made it online or not being his real self but wow. How do you deal with that? When everyone questioned him why he “lied” he said he wanted to pledge that org and wanted to prove that he, being gay and all, could do it. But I don’t think he proved anything especially the way he hid it.
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I’m somewhat new here and I usually lurk, but I had to comment on this.
I’m a sorority girl and I would be uncomfortable being in a chapter with a person with these identity issues. I know this is not PC, but…someone that is “in-between” like this is still figuring out who they are and what they want to be.
There’s a reason why BGLO’s make you wait until you have 30 semester hours to pledge. You need to know yourself, what you stand for and what you will and won’t do to get something that you desire.
This girl/boy was still figuring out who they are. If you want to be a boy, then fine. But, that means you need to be a Sigma, not a Zeta.
I’m not a Zeta, so I don’t know all of their organization’s values, but I do know about the “finer WOMANhood” angle. That is in direct conflict with how this person felt about themselves. S/he should’ve gone in the other direction as soon as s/he saw “WOMAN” in the title.
My sorority concentrates on “SISTERhood, Scholarship and Service.” You need not even apply if you don’t meet the qualifications of those three words (being SISTERly, having a good GPA and giving back to your community). If you consider yourself a boy, you cannot be my sister!
In fact, if you go to my orgs Web site right now, the Nat’l President ends her message with “let’s reclaim the SISTER in Sisterhood.” Sorry, it just doesn’t get any clearer than that.
Additionally, when you are on line, you are told that you will need certain colored SKIRT suits for official sorority events. I’m not sure about other organizations, but my Sorors will stop you at the door if you try to come in with pants. No ifs and or buts about it. See ya!
My concern is also with the chapter members that ignored the warning signs this person was giving. She came to the rush acting and refering to herself as a man. Why would you then extend her an offer of membership for a female organization?
My thought is that you would only extend offers to those who you felt could be your friends and embodied qualities that reflected your specific organization.
I think all parties involved were in the wrong on this one…
LOL! Can you tell that I’m feel strongly about this?
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Peyso will kuffi smack you Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
He didnt go to the rush/interest meeting acting as a man. Thats why they let him online. He was a woman then, they just thought she was lesbian.
I agree with you that both groups are wrong. I think the Zetas are wrong for not referring to him in the way that he wished to be referred to and he is wrong for not respecting the SISTERhood that he joined. He joined a sorority for women (notice i say women and not for females) and when you choose to no longer identify as a women, you have to relinquish your right to be in that sorority. Just like a member can be kicked out of an org when they no longer meet the standards of it, the same goes for him.
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JG* Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
See this is what I get for not reading the comments. I basically repeated what you said.
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The issue what this situation here is that he probably would not have been allowed to join Phi Beta Sigma. According to DC law (and the laws of many other places), organizations that are founded for a specific gender are allowed to discriminate according to that gender. However, orgs are not allowed to discriminate according to a PERCEIVED gender which is the case here. They couldnt turn him down because he identified as a man because he was in fact a female.
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JG* Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Well they could have turned him down for not being the best candidate for membership. If I’m looking at you versus the values and the thrusts that my org represents and I don’t see that in you, I have the right to vote “no” for you.
Again, if he were identifying as male at the time of the the application process, I would have realized that *Sisterhood* (I believe in Zeta this would be Finer WOMANhood) is not something this person could subscribe to and hold up simply because they are seeking to be a “brother” in a sorority. It wouldn’t be clear to me otherwise.
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Just want everyone to know that when he was pledging he was a woman but when he was done then he wanted to be a man.
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JG* Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Yea* see this is a problem. I mean there is nothing that could be done at that point, and I believe the chapter may have gotten out of pocket a bit. Sometimes you have to handle in house problems a little more quietly, but I realize in this situation the member did not make it so easy. I think I would have privately (under Sorority supervision) asked if this person felt that they were representing the ideals of the org. I would ask if they even still had reverence for them. There are several greeks who after their process or after major changes in the lives realize that greek life is not for them. They are mature enough to recognize that and step away. I would ask this member if this was one of those major life changes that would possibly lead to that, and if so, please be mature about it.
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I sometimes wish that I could be a more accepting and non-discriminating person but honestly that isn’t usually the case. I wouldn’t have knownly accepted a female that identified herself as being a man into my organization. Had I been tricked into letting said (wo)man into the organization then I would have been pissed but that goes back to what someone else said above concerning a screening process. If this person had already been going around campus dressed and acting like a man then we would have known about it and then (s)he would have never made it through the process anyhow.
When I was in undergrad my chapter wouldn’t have even let in an openly gay person (although we do have some gay members that we learned of after the fact and I honestly don’t love them any less than my other Sorors). There were some members that were very against letting in women that weren’t black, that situation never really fully arose so it wasn’t that big of a deal but it would have been if a white woman had expressed a desire to join.
Is all of that wrong? Maybe, but it’s a reality in most organizations.
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I read this before. She was talking so much noise about demanding to be called “him” and feeling like she was wearing drag when they made her wear women’s shoes. B! this is a SORORity. WTH?! And WTH were these chicks thinking accepting her. I know the chapter couldn’t have been THAT hard up.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
“And WTH were these chicks thinking accepting her. I know the chapter couldn’t have been THAT hard up.”
You never know…
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Shawn Smith Reply:
April 7th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I know at my chapter we used to say “Quality over Quantity”.
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I’ll come back and read comments a little later, but I’m sure I’m repeating. As a Sorority girl, I think I could have gone two ways with this. Hehe.. not three!
1) If I KNEW he was no longer identifying as a female, I would have discouraged him from attempting to join a sorority as it would not be in his best interests nor in the best interests of my org. One of the things we stand for is Sisterhood, something he clearly does not subscribe to. What would we call him? It we can’t say she or her, then we couldn’t say Soror. Plain and simple they are orgs for women. He would have to do things he wouldn’t be comfortable with and vice versa. No one should join an org that they don’t feel 100% comfortable with. If you do, then one has to question your purpose in joining. Asking a line to wear heels in a step show is not harassing those who don’t like wearing heels, it’s what the chapter decided to do. We step in boots sometimes, not everyone likes boots, but we do it for uniformity. I digress…
2) If she were simply gay/bisexual and was more into dressing and acting boyish, then I would solely judge her on her merits as a person and what she could bring to the org. My chapter has lesbians some of which are more boyish in demeanor and dress and they are awesome sorors.
If he wanted to be a trailblazer it would have seemed as though he would have worked to challenge the laws that govern this type of legal discrimination. He should have gone after allowing transgenders to be an exception to the law that allows for frats and orgs to discriminate based on gender, and made a caveat for gender identity. He was, according to him, a male outside of his physical attributes. He should have wanted to join a frat. Likewise there are men who are women outside of their physical attributes and I could understand them challenging laws to allow them to join a sorority. I think Transexuals would have a better shot though. (Those post-surgery). Lastly, he could have started his own organization that would have guaranteed his comfort and total dedication. Even if that chapter was accepting, he could have probably guessed that the rest of the greek community may not be. It all seems a little “PR stunty” to me, despite the pain that he went through. I wish him and this org the best in this situation. Neither side played fair.
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funny, when this article came out we had a nice little discussion about it on twitter.
i think that JG* said it best, why join an organization that’s based on SISTERHOOD when you’re busy trying to become a BROTHER? that makes no logical sense to me whatsoever.
i don’t believe that the maltreatment of him/her should have been done but at the same time, he/she shouldn’t have tried to join a SORORITY. both were wrong here.
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Someone may have cleared this up already, but just in case…
DC law essentially states that Devin could not have been denied the right to join a sorority solely because of his transgender status (because he’s female to male) but could be denied the right to join a fraternity because “he” is not actually a physical male.
Having said that, I read this article a month or so ago and have since come to a few conclusions. Mainly that this whole thing makes NO sense. Why Devin wanted to join a sorority, especially one that promotes Finer Womanhood, when he knew he self-identified as a man is beyond me. There is blame to be placed at the feet of both parties involved, but for me the “why” question still remains.
There also was clearly some communication issues. Surely at some point before Devin was fully initiated into the organization, the transgender conversation had to come up. At that point, someone should’ve said something.
I also think it’s unfair for anyone to make it out like had the sorors of that chapter denied Devin entrance because of his transgender status, they would’ve been wrong. There are organizations for members of the transgender community BECAUSE people understand that there is a reason these organizations are gender-specific and it’s not about inequality.
I really feel bad for everyone involved.
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I actually had a very brief conversation with a colleague about this not too long after this story was published. I work at a PWU in Washington, DC and am the GLBTA liaison for my dept. at said University. I was talking with one of my colleagues who works in our campus GLBTA office and he was telling me about all the drama at GW.
I could quickly tell that we were not going to see eye-to-eye on this issue so I just said it was a mess and kept it moving.
I know a few Trans individuals and I’ve know some gay, lesbian, and bisexual women with gender identity issues. All of it can be very confusing. I have a friend who is a woman but identifies with masculinity. She still at the same time celebrates her womanhood. She doesn’t like that she’s curvy, she tries to hide that w/ baggy clothes. She plays sports, has a close cut w/ a tight shape up and wears boxer briefs instead of panties. She dates women and is definitely a “Dom” (in other words butch), but she’s still a woman and has no desire to be a man. She has lots of gay and straight female friends that she feels a bond of womanhood with. My friend in question is 26 years old and still hasn’t figured her identity out. Some people don’t figure that out until they are in their 40s and 50s.
I think Devin is confused. I think he is trying to figure out his place and it’s not as simple as if he identifies male he should have joined a fraternity. I’m sure in his head when he was making the decision to pursue membership it was way more complicated than that.
That being said I think he made the wrong decision. Everybody doesn’t need to be greek. I think we all know some greeks who are living proof of that. Someone else mentioned something about knowing who you are before you come to an organization. I can’t agree more. I think too many people expect organizations to give them an identity. At the same time I think Devin forgot or misjudged that when you join and org you join and identity.
I think the most telling thing about the whole situation is the way he disrespected his letters. I think that right there shows his commitment to his organization. Regardless of his issues with his chapter or his line sisters, that should not determine his relationship with Zeta. If he really earned his letters then no one can take that away from him, but him, and he did.
I’ve seen plenty of people beef with their org. I’ve even seen people give the letters back, I ain’t neva seen someone just rip their shit up and deface it… that’s trifflin.
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