Independent, But Dependent, Women
Sometimes they need extra protection. Sometimes they don't.
It started in the late 60s/early 70s, continued in the 80s, peaked in the 90s and is now spiraling out of control in the 21st Century. I’m talking about the evolution of the Independent Woman. It’s been about 30 – 40 years since the that term, the characteristics and the subsequent mind frame stepped in to change mainstream, as well as African American, culture. Music is a great indication. Songstresses from Diana Ross to Monica to Beyonce have declared their sovereignty. Males have followed suit. As “rapper” Webbie so tritely said, “She got her own house, she got her own car… She a bad broad!” And dammit she is. I like a woman who first and foremost has herself. There’s nothing sexier. What I’ve come to find out though, is that these women aren’t as I-n-d-e-p-e-n-d-e-n-t as they seem.
Case in point, our fictional Independent Woman for the day – Jamie. Now Jamie here is the quintessential young, Independent Woman. She’s in her mid to late 20s, pays a mortgage, not rent, drives a car, has a secure job with a budding career and overall is a lovely young woman. Jamie has a man, but she doesn’t need him for financial gain. And her man realizes this and feels like he’s one lucky son of a gun. Y’know what he’s thinking? He’s thinking – Half on the dinner check? Word. You want to take me out for drinks? Lovely. Bout to handle some business on your own without needing me to step in? ::In Drake’s shaky ass voice:: You’re the effing best!!!
And on the surface, she is the best. Better than the clingy women that need you to do, buy and run everything for them. Someone that you can stand strong with instead of constantly supporting. However, once you get beyond the surface things get a bit confusing. At least with the constant Dependent Woman you know how to play each situation. It usually starts with, “I’ll handle it baby…” Now the Independent Woman is a bit trickier. Underneath that facade of strength and self-sufficiency is still a woman. And a woman still wants to feel protected regardless of how strong she is. So when do you step in to help this complex woman and when do you let her do her own thing?
Well f**k if I know homie, I’m just writing the post. When it comes to this, I’m struggling like a three legged canine in an Alaskan dog sled race. For some reason, I think it’ll just have to be a lot trial and error. Similar to walking in a mine field without a metal detector. Just step out with the utmost conviction and hope for the best. If your leg gets blown off, just remember you still have three other appendages to rock with. And now at least you know where one mine is. Well was. It’s a messed up situation though. No one wants to stay silent and end up looking like you care less about your girl’s well-being than your Chia Pet. Nor does anyone want to continually run into the brick wall of “Nah I’m straight [baby]. Thanks though.” So where does that leave us men?
Play the game like Jordan in his prime. Or at the very least Harold Minor. Sorry for lack of a better word ladies, but it is kind of a game. A couple close lady friends of mine confirmed that they just want need the validation that a man is there. They may not, and in most cases probably won’t, need your help; but they like to know that you would offer it. While it was great information that will surely help me in future adventures, it brought up more questions.
Why the need for support when you clearly don’t need it? I don’t walk around with a jock strap on just in case I play basketball at some point in the day. And there still leaves the original question – when are we men supposed to know when to step in on a woman’s behalf? There’s a fine line between encroaching on a woman’s independence and holding them down. Help us brothers out because we don’t want to turn into a habitual line steppers.
Seattle – Do I Help Now? How About Now? Now? Definitely Now… Right? – Washington
100 Responses to “Independent, But Dependent, Women”
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As in all relationship elements, communication is the key. In my last LTR (long-term relationship), we had it mapped out.
I got my bills, you get yours. You get dates (though I did the fake wallet reach), I got groceries (for the most part). He got vacations and I “thanked” him for that energetically.
We treated each other. But we talked about it all the time. I invited him to a concert so I bought the tickets, he said “I’ll get dinner.” He paid for dinner, parking garage and the after hours wine bar.
Out with friends, I’d turn and look, he’d say, “I got this” knowing that if he was short, I’d back him up and vice versa. It’s great to have your own as a woman but you really gotta let a man be the man.
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Toni Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 8:25 am
Totally agree about the communication. If people talked to each other, that would take out some of the guess work about when to step in and when to step back.
Independent women may act like they don’t “need” anything but that’s not the truth. We all need somebody to lean on as the song goes.
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Erin Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 8:43 am
What does it mean to “let a man be a man”?
If a woman wants to do everything on her own, let her!
I am just confused because people say women should have their own thing going but still be dependent on a man.
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Cval Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:40 am
In a relationship you don’t want to run the risk of de-masculinizing your man. I’m fine with yall being independent but if I’m dating you I need to be able to cater to you at some point!
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:05 am
Don’t let me find out you an emo-cat…lol.
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Erin Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
“In a relationship you don’t want to run the risk of de-masculinizing your man” How can a woman make a man less masculine? That would be his own undoing.
The thing is, some people don’t want to be catered to.
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When do you need to step in? Tears, anger and avoiding the calls of certain bill collectors are usually a good indicator.
I think that you are failing to differentiate between the Emotional, Physical and Financial needs of women (people).
The term Independent Woman mainly refers to a female’s ability to provide for herself Financially… and not much else. People receive their sense of emotional security and physicial satisfaction from their relationships. A woman who wants you to “offer” to help her with her finances, does not necessarily “need” your help, she is seeking a sense of security from you. If she knows that in a clutch, you will be there to back her up, she can rest easy at night.
That Mr. Washington, is meeting her emotional needs and in large part, really has nothing to do with her Financial concerns. So keep your jock strap in your briefcase and learn to play the game.
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 7:44 am
“That Mr. Washington, is meeting her emotional needs and in large part, really has nothing to do with her Financial concerns. So keep your jock strap in your briefcase and learn to play the game.”
Now I ain’t no instigator or nothing but those sound like fighting words where i’m from. That’s all for now. Be back l8a…
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Yea, but you’re from Brooklyn. So is “Good morning, how are you.”
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:47 am
You’re from BK. You’re a natural instigator.
It’s OK. I’m Jamaican and I’ve come to grips with my love for Pineapple Soda and how my body automatically moves when I hear reggae.
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Reecie Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:16 am
I agree with this post.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Looks like I also need to bring my cup if I ever play ball with you Still Water.
While the focus of this Independent Woman post was about their financial self-sufficiency, because that’s where their independence derives from, I also alluded to how they were strong in other situations as well.
As I discussed with my male & female brethren offline, many women have the facade of emotional independence as well. Handling other situations and remaining stoic, but on the inside there’s emotional turmoil. Sometimes they look to their partner when in other situations, they handle things themselves. Not everything is signaled by “tears, anger and certain bill collectors.”
So in those cases, where is a dude to help? I know you’ve got your finances, but when women do the “sometimes yes, sometimes no” how are we men to play that game Ms. Water?
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:11 am
I think this is where a man just has to step up and do his thing. Use your judgment. Yeah she’s going to act like she doesn’t need your help, but you know she’s hurting. She’ll tell you doesn’t need a hug…give her one anyway. Just be there for her. Don’t go back to playin Madden 2010 if you see her standing in the kitchen fighting back tears after she had a heated convo with moms.
Yeah we are hard to read, but I promise you, she won’t be mad or talk ish about you for offering her some TLC and a tissue when she said she’s “fine”.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Quite true. But two things and I’ll speak for myself not for the whole gender:
1.) I’m horrible at paying attention. Women have these uber analytical genes in which they pick up on severity, tone and even things I don’t say within a conversation. Please keep this in mind.
2.) If you keep saying you’re fine, I’m not going to keep baiting you. After awhile you have to grow up and just say what’s on your mind. Once I hit my point of frustration (b/c I know you’re not “fine”) I will say that I care, but I’m not going keep chipping away so when you’re ready to talk please do.
By the way FINE = Fucked up-Insecure-Neurotic-Emotional
So please be careful when using this term all willy nilly.
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:30 am
I feel you. I try not to be one of the women who say I’m good (not fine) in hopes of baiting a dude to air drying my tears and all that. Like you, I’m not gonna keep prying if you keep giving me the Heisman. And women shouldn’t expect this from men.
I think what we are getting are those women who don’t really know what they want: balancing being tough and learning to be vulnerable. I like to be straight up…If I want your help or something of the sort, I will say “Nah, I’m not okay,” and go from there. If I’m handling on it my own, I will be probably be unpleasant for some time, but I’ll get over it. I’m used to this. But as the man in the situation, you can still be there without having to exercise some keen sense that you don’t have
.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:47 am
To add on to Starbucks’ points
For his first statement….That always seems to be a constant issue when it comes to the communication aspect of men & women. The Uber Analytic (Women) v. The Simple Logic (Men)
As for his second statement….TOUCHE commrade! I find it utterly puzzling how women will say one thing yet mean another. Washington is right, if you say you are FINE, there is no need for the baiting. I’m all for the method that I used on my smaller cousins back in the day. The Corner Method. ‘Go to the corner and come back to me when you are ready to explain yourself like a BIG girl…ooookk’ ….lol
If you want your mind read, write it on your forehead, sweetie!! This ain’t crackin the code like it’s National Treasure
Peace during the Madden/College FB/ NFL season,
-BBW
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Berriblk Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:14 am
“Peace during the Madden/College FB/ NFL season”
*giggles*
Some of us will need it.
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Streetztalk Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
CHUUUUCH
You gotta use your judgement tho! If its serious step in. You should be able to gauge her emotional threshold. Whether you listen in fact or appearance you should still have an idea.
Fine tune your spider sense to the woman emo spectrum and ull be fine
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Easier said than done…Women = the Universal Enigma
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:46 am
You ain’t never lie. It would help if yall weren’t so simple tho
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:51 am
It would help if y’all didnt over think everything.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Misdemeanor Jenkins,
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”
-Leonardo da Vinci
FIN
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Touché.
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:58 am
“Don’t go back to playin Madden 2010 if you see her standing in the kitchen fighting back tears after she had a heated convo with moms.”
Listen…do you know how hard it is to re-focus after putting down the sticks mid-game for an extended period of time? Especially if the game is about to be over or your working on a comeback, unnecessary pauses can ruin everything. I go to the kitchen to let you wipe snot all over my shirt, then sit back down not knowing what play I called, whether or not I’m pounding the ball this drive or airing it out/blitzing or dropping back…like you said, we’re simple and this is sensory overload. At least if it’s a NFL game, you can hit pause on the DVR and be good.
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:16 am
hold up!
“When do you need to step in? Tears, anger and avoiding the calls of certain bill collectors are usually a good indicator.”
No disrespect…but this is not the time any man should step in…a man should not the band-aid to your financial problems. If you as a woman got yo ass that deep in debt than you can dig yourself back out…..
see you cant shun a man’s offer to get the bill when things are going good for you then turn into an insecure little girl when its too much to handle?
Thats like accepting the credit card limit increases from the company than crying to mommy and daddy when you’ve run up your damn billl…please correct me if i am misinterpreting this statement. please.
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:32 am
And if you save her ass once, she’ll always know she can wildout @ the Gucci store and get you to cover the rest.
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:51 am
And the chorus goes:
“Don’t save her, she don’t wanna be saved/Don’t save her, she don’t wanna be saved….”
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
you are gonna get me fired!! lmaoooo
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Well you better stifle them giggles, cuz you know I aint gonna kick on the rent cuz you lost ur job patna
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Still Water Was on a Plane Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
DANG!!! Can a girl fly to White Plains??!?! Geez. Thanks for holding it down Miss Jenkins!
:::clears throat:::
The turmoil that you speak of is indicative of ALL women, not just the independent ones. Estrogen is a hell of a drug. Being able to take care of yourself does not exempt you from its effects.
I wholeheartedly agree with Miss Jenkins in that a dude needs to just “Step up.” This argument is nothing new. Do I need to hurl a copy of “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” at your noggin for you to understand that you will NEVER understand?!?!
Get over it and give the woman a dang hug!
Yes, it sucks when a woman says that she is fine when she is clearly not… you just admitted it! You know that “fine” means that Hell Hath Cometh to your world, but yet you continue to play Madden (which I will never understand… I HATE THAT GAME.)
Lastly, Ms. Black and Trapped, I was only trying to answer the initial question of when should a dude step in. I assumed that he meant financially. If you see me crying cuz my heat bill was $500, I will just want a hug. I’ll figure it out.
I’m going to Lunch, folks.
\\//
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Loved this post. Best tweet I received all damn day!!
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I like the term independently needy…when you’re able to realize that, yes, you can be a woman who’s independent, but realize that there comes a time when you ‘need’ your man for certain things….Jill Scott had a song “The Fact Is (I Need You) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt8mNt94xJU
More women need to take heed.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 8:52 am
As I said on the Twitter, Jill Scott has an answer for everything. No hate though. No hate. That’s just not what I do.lol. I’ll have to check this song out when I get home and listen to dem words and see what it’s all about.
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Reecie Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:17 am
that is a great song! and I love it. really describes how I feel in my relationship.
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Word. Also peep Mary’s “Feel Like a Woman”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfeHLk5jKCs
“I’m tired of screaming independent…I wanna start depending on you…”
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Before the day’s end, my post may have an accompanying soundtrack.
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CHeeKZ CHeaPO Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
And the men need there come back song….
so I present. Ginuwine – There It Is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_bDp2AXSQk
The Ultimate “b!^&H you need to stop acting up song”
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Jaci Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Girl…Jill had that one down…
I can feel what she’s saying I could prolly put down a roof if I wanted and change pipes but the fact is…at the end of the day I NEED a man…all women do…it just doesn’t work without one-it’s a natural design…
“I can floss my own bling-bling…I can even raise the child we make..make sure he’s loved and knows what God gave..teach him how to walk and stand, but he needs you to help him be a man”
that good enough for yall?
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I think it just depends on the woman, which you’ll find out by communicating, as OneChele says…
Personally I consider myself independent but I don’t wear it as a badge of honor.. it’s just that way.. I am independent because I have to be.
If a man offers to do something for me, I’m not going to blast his head off if I feel like I have it taken care of, I always appreciate the offer.
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Erin Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:36 am
I personally consider myself as independent as well, especially since I had to be my own parent…
I prefer to do everything on my own because that way I know it will get done and get done the right way!
My own grandmother told me once that I was trying to depend on people because I used to ask my mother to help me get my Driver’s license, but of course she had every reason under the sun as to why she couldn’t.
Long story short…I asked for help and got nothing!
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:54 am
“I prefer to do everything on my own because that way I know it will get done and get done the right way!”
This one is pretty much me also, Erin.
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Well between OneChele and StillWater ain’t much left to say, but I’m feeling chatty so…
Communication is key because it’s the only way you’re going to have any sense where to find these ‘landmines’ and find a level of comfort regarding finances (or anything else) within the relationship. You also find out quicker whether you can work with this person at all…
It’s a great feeling to be able to do for yourself financially, but I agree that “If she knows that in a clutch, you will be there to back her up, she can rest easy at night. ”
And he can certainly put up those shelves at my place beause I’m short and it’s hard for me, he can advise/step-in me if he’s got an area of expertise I need help with (I know not a thing about cars), and there’s a whole lot of ways he can help me and let me know he’s there for me without half of them being about money…
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I actually don’t think finances, though they are important and an overall part of thangs, are the focus of what Sir Seattle was getting at today. There’s a lot of other stuff as well that doesn’t even involve hardware, tools, pause, etc.
My question for women is what about the other stuff? Like when a woman walks around and claims to know she’s the sh*t, states that she’s the sh*t, and is so confident that she changes her name to Donna Juan….yet, says to her man “You didn’t notice my the new color on my nails” and starts sniffling and runs to her bedroom then dives on the bed in tears? That’s dependence as well.
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Tatica Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Well I think that woman is just lying…
Sometimes a woman may reach a point where she wishes she could be that ‘indepedent’, but it seems to me a way of trying to not get involved and thereby not get hurt.
In that case I agree, how are even in a relationship with someone like that?
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:55 am
I agree with everything Tatica said… I don’t think any woman truly feels like that. It’s just her forcefield.
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Co-sign Tatica and Nicki Sunshine. That woman you are talking about has some issues…She is faking the funk.
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:04 am
What you should say to that is “I’m sorry, I got caught up looking at that divinely and immaculately sculpted rack of yours.” If she’s cocky enough to change her name to Donna Juan, she’d appreciate the comment…or at least the adjectives.
While it all may not be about finances, the majority of it is. Let’s be real, your woman could be rolling in all kinds of dough, but you guys are walking down the block and someone jumps out of an alley ready to serve y’all up proper, unless she’s Laila Ali or someone of that ilk, she’s not gonna jump out in front and defend your honor, it’ll definitely be expected to be the other way around, and rightly so. I think what throws men off is not the new found independence of most women, but getting used to the idea of it. Let me make two points here.
1. The men of our generation are not dating the same type of women their father dated. Today’s female isn’t coming home after having the same long grueling day you had and cooking you a hot meal, washing your clothes, ironing your shirts, running behind your dutty likkle pickney dem, and cleaning up the house for dolo.
2. In analyzing the “dependency” question as it were, I think it’s important to note that a lot of men are not as independent as they would like you to believe. When you pull the curtain on a lot of relationships and see what’s really going on, it would surprise you. You do all the “manly” things required of you, but maybe she got you that job, or the apartment is in her name because your credit is God awful. You probably look real fly, but shorty buys all your clothes because she knows you dress as though you don’t own a mirror. Basically, you’re a mess w/ out a woman or women in your life. And that’s because a lot of cats have subconscious mommy issues.
And who the hell wears a jocks strap to play pick up? What are you, 10?
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Have you been watching Entourage lately? Sound like you’re describing E with that 2nd point.
And no, I leave the jock strap at home. Traded it in for some more important protection when I was in my teens.
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:40 am
I get that a lot. I’ve literally seen one episode of Entourage, and was not paying enough attention to name characters, but I must say, Jeremy Piven’s character is a man after my own heart.
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Berriblk Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Not E, but Turtle.
Love Jeremy Piven as well, he’s the reason I continue to watch. Its gotten kinda boring these past couple of seasons.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Yeah I feel like a lot more used to happen during each episode. Looks like they’re stretching out the content so the last few episodes are full of action.
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Jaci Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:01 am
RightCoast,
You make some excellent points in that…there are some men that are dependent and that really does make me wanna scream, like fool I’m not doing that for you and it makes a woman feel like she has to be the man.
I also thing the archetype of the independent woman goes back way farther than Seattle acknowledged (at least the independent black woman)
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Oh yeah I agree. The foundation has always been there. But I think it came into the mainstream during those years.
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Berriblk Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Are u hinting that men need to evolve themselves (i.e. let go of the past)…is that what I hear lurking in these sentences…??
Correct me if I’m wrong =)
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Slim thats a little girl in a grown woman’s body- RUN!
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“I am just confused because people say women should have their own thing going but still be dependent on a man.”
No need to be confused because both women and men should have their own things going on. However isn’t the whole point of it all to be INTERDEPENDENT (dependent on one another )? I mean if the relationship is progressing to where you become best friends more so than mates, its usually because you’re building each other up and therefore become each others support team and motivator to evolve even further. Sort of like Jay n B. Haha
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 9:57 am
::two hand claps::
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Maaaaan…F*CK Beyonce.
And any of you Beyonce jock riders that decide to jump on me for that statement will have your comment deleted. Why? Because I have the power and I’m just that petty. Good day!
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
RCLS= Blog bully
however i co-sign
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:15 am
You are walking a very fine line madam.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:39 am
There is a tree that grows in Brooklyn. Great comment sir.
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Actually plenty of TREES grow in Brooklyn. What you think I be elevating my mind with. Haha
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
LOL…so why the hell are they so hard to find down there?
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Lol. Cuz they don’t just allow outsiders at 4am nor really at anytime. Just think, if we gave it away to everyone, there’d be no more trees growing in BK. Save the trees…
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Something that I have discovered throughout my years… whenever a term becomes popular, people will label themselves that term in the hopes of being seen in a positive light.
Which leads me to my next point: Heffa, you aint independent, you heard it in a song and labeled yourself that.
You got your own house.. own car… YOU’RE SUPPOSE TO! I’M NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU A DAMN MEDAL FOR THE ABILITY TO OWN SOMETHING! Congradulations, you are not a gold digging leech.
Chris Rock tell that joke all the time to dudes: “You’re suppose to be a father. You are suppose to bring the money home. You are suppose to hit the bottom of the pussy.”
Well why doesn’t that apply to a woman?
Getting to Seatle’s real point… can you go to the bathroom by yourself? Can you make a decision without turning to me? Do you start to moan and complain when I go out the the guys? Can you entertain yourself? Can I leave you alone with important people from work and trust that you won’t embarrass me? CAN YOU KEEP A SECRET WITHOUT TELLING YOUR LINE SISTERS ?!? Do you have to tell the world our businesses b/c you need re-insurance for how you feel? Can you not get emotional about a situation and work your way through it using reason and not an attitude? Now that makes you my busta-baby!
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:16 am
“CAN YOU KEEP A SECRET WITHOUT TELLING YOUR LINE SISTERS ?!?”
Good luck w/ that. They never cut the cord my friend. Unless it’s a line of 57, or her LS gives you some buns, or gives just about everybody buns, they’ll keep talking to each other til death do them part my friend.
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Rox Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
RCLS: Now that just ain’t tru. I’ve got 6 whom I love to death, but they don’t & won’t know everything. Some women ARE like that, but some women are not. Maybe y’all should try to sift out the latter b/c they exist…
(…continuing my comment under CHeekZ original post)
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Peyso Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Busta baby? Neva heard this one. I thought it was bussitbaby (all one word)
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CHeeKZ CHeaPO Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
dog. You are probably right…
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Rox Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Start looking for women with high self-esteem & true senses of self worth as opposed to “independence.” Like CHeekZ implied, the word has become so cliche, not to mention misapplied.
Women w/ high self-esteem & self worth understand themselves (along w/ their highs/lows, attributes/flaws) better & handle situations all the better for it. They respect their relationships & understand discretion, not needing to run to they line sisters, real sisters, or sistah sisters divulging secrets to gain perspective – they’ll think it over & discuss it w/ u; they will resepct ur “man time” b/c they too value their “woman time,” they know how to support themselves financially b/c there is much gratification in having a purpose, being rewarded for it, & being able to care for themselves or others (like budgeting online shopping or treating ppl to gelato…yummy =), and they will tell u how they feel when they are ready to, & won’t play games in the interim b/c, dayum, it aint worth their time either (& u will be expected to do the same).
At the end of the day, as opposed to heralding themselves as “independent,” these women will actually do know how to function independently b/c they understand there are & will be many times throughout life when they will have to.
These women know how to love, appreciate & respect u b/c they love, appreciate & respect themselves, thus recognizing their need & desire & worthiness to be (one last time) loved, appreciated & respected back.
& lastly, lets face it, these women may still confuse the hell out of u at times, but u won’t really mind b/c they’ll be worth it.
- they do exist!
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Erin Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
“Start looking for women with high self-esteem & true senses of self worth as opposed to “independence.” Like CHeekZ implied, the word has become so cliche, not to mention misapplied.”
Like the word “Hater”!
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Rox is busy, but... Reply:
August 20th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Lol, I’m confused. But I guess that word is played out…
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Sir Washington,
First, you are a fool for that pic.
Second, I think it was said above but I’ll repeat. I think the independence a woman really is talking about is financial and not really beyond that. We are still women, no matter how strong and tough we appear or are actually are. We still need to feel protected, and want to know that our man will be able to hold us down when we need comfort, etc etc.
I think an independent woman may run into issues when she doesn’t know how to still be independent without alienating her man and his ego.
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Super co-sign. As vulnerable creatures, having to ask for your care and protection is not only difficult, but uhm…kinda backwards. One would think a man would want to do these things and provide that security for his woman. This is common sense, and something, I think, we shouldn’t have to ask for.
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Still Water Was on a Plane Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Super Supreme Co-Signage to the nth Degree.
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Rox Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Some things really are innate & we shouldn’t have to defend them.
I totally co-sign.
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:01 am
“I think an independent woman may run into issues when she doesn’t know how to still be independent without alienating her man and his ego.”
My sentiments exactly
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Erin Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
It’s always about a man and his stupid ego!
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Hmm. I was just discussing the whole “good black man/ good black woman” thing on my blog, and this whole “independent” thing is important to discuss, especially how it relates to economics vs. emotions. When I hear independent woman, I just think a broad with a job. Like it’s the basic fact of being an adult. But I think some people confuse it with being so emotionally aloof that they don’t “need” anyone for anything, financially or emotionally, and that’s where things get effed up
http://brandonsaintrandy.wordpress.com/?p=225
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Seen you on SBM, but don’t think I seen you comment here before. Welcome to the busy world of
Richard Scarry3 Ways. Now that that’s out the way…I think a lot of people miss the point of the emotional vs. financial aspect. I think that’s even evident to a certain degree today. It seems like one of those issues that won’t go away for…oh….50 years.
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Brandon St. Randy Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Good ol’ Twitter links. They workz.
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This is the first time that I read all the comments in a long time. I agree with some people on some things and others on other things. I’m not hyped on this independent stick. So what she got a job, I got one too. You got a crib? I got one too. Kudos for you being able to do what you’re supposed to do. It’s like we expect women to not be doing sh!t. I think if I was a woman, the notion wouldnt sit well with me. To me its like calling a black man articulate, “You speak so well…” and we know how that ends up
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It’s so funny that this topic is coming up because i was thinking about this last night while watching the TO show. For those that don’t watch, TO went on a date with Jessica White and she was practically FIGHTING him to pay for the check. Now, I do understand that she wanted to show her (financial) independence and show him that she didn’t need his money, but he too really wanted to pay and she should’ve just let him! (And then she totally melted when he got her the necklace she had been eyeing…which shows that she still enjoyed being treated like a lady regardless of her (financial) independence)
I honestly feel that if a woman needs to constantly assert that she doesn’t need a man for anything and she keeps reiterating that she is independent…it is really a cover up. A woman who truly has her stuff together doesn’t need to broadcast it all day everyday to everybody.
I don’t remember who said it earlier but no man or woman is truly independent. We need each other. As far as a woman saying that she is “Fine,” if there is a change in her behavior, regardless of what she says she is not fine. Now how to approach the issue and getting her to talk about it…idk that’s a tough one because it really just depends on the woman because all women are different…she may either be quitely screaming for you to be “Captain Save-Em” or she might just want you to leave it alone until she is ready to talk…
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 11:57 am
“I don’t remember who said it earlier but no man or woman is truly independent. We need each other.”
That was me actually
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Erin Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
“And then she totally melted when he got her the necklace she had been eyeing…which shows that she still enjoyed being treated like a lady regardless of her (financial) independence)”
What do you mean exactly? Are you saying that to be treated like a lady is to accept material gifts?
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lol@pic of Depends
..unless you like that type of challenge.
It’s funny you write this post because the complete opposite happens to me…Men say I appear to be successful, Loaded and independent, but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…I get by, I struggle.
I like to have my wallet disregarded as I open it. when we are out and together please be that provider and gentleman…
I’d like to think I’ve got a solid set of cojones but I save them for the 2520s I work with, the landlord, the utility companies and the bank…they tend to dissipate (the cojones) when I’m around him.
But this varies from woman to woman…you should be able to catch on to the pattern in the first few dates/encounters tho…but always offer..if she gets offended or defensive maybe you want to reconsider courting this woman because if there is a power struggle with something insignificant like “who pays for dinner?” than more power struggles are yet to come
If you don’t want to go there with $$ and you’re cool with going dutch..than step up your activity game…surprise this hard working woman with new experiences & places…
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Aside: Seattle, you need to go sit in the corner for that Depends pic. How long you ask? Well, it depends.
…
See, how I did that? Ladies and Gentlemen, I’m here all night. I’ll be appearing on Thursday nights right after the Elvis impersonators!
Ahem.
The basic idea of “independent woman” is simple. Ok, so it ain’t simple, it just ain’t all that complex. To quote the song, “everybody needs somebody sometimes”. Usually an independent woman would’ve had her ish together long before the booski came along. Thus, she has already proven she can take care of herself without the man.
But, nobody wants to go it alone (except hermits). Contrary to popular belief, we women-folk are human and need support just like anyone else. Just because you are able to do it alone doesn’t mean you want to. Because, though it’s a great feeling to accomplish something all by yourself, it is another special feeling entirely to accomplish something with the help of the person you love.
Even those who claim they did it all by themselves weren’t entirely alone. Even if it happened to come from a stranger (i.e. you apply for a loan and the banker goes through all kind of loopholes to get it for you), there was someone there to help and/or assist. To get all geek on ya for a second, it’s just like it was pointed out in Thoreau’s “Walden Pond”. Even though self-reliance was a principle of this piece, it ultimately taugh that no one is truly alone in their journey. Even though he ended up all alone in the woods, he stated, “Near the end of March, 1845, I borrowed an axe and went down to the woods by Walden Pond, nearest to where I intended to build my house, and began to cut down some tall, arrowy white pines, still in their youth, for timber.” Even though he was mostly self-reliant, he wasn’t entirely self-reliant.
Overall, even though it takes a strong woman to claim independence, it truly takes a strong woman to claim vulnerability.
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I feel this is not a new phenomena in the african-american community. Men should stop going against the current and just work with it. Like someone stated before, you are not dating or marrying (I use these terms loosely) the women of your great grandfathers past.
Independence is not the devil. It is actually making your life a lot easier if you think long-term. It’s not here do to destroy your masculinity…well, only if you let it, then you probably didn’t have to begin with.
My advice to men is be assertive. Simple.
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No offense, but because a male can throw around some dollars to wine me and dine me, that doesn’t make you a man – it just means you’re financially blessed. That being said, paying for my share of dinner doesn’t even make me a woman, forget an independent woman.
As a woman it’s my integrity, honesty, humility, and compassion that gives me said title. As an independent woman I’m self sufficient financially, socially, and educationally.
But everyone needs someone. I need someone to hold me down when things get crazy. Someone who lets me vent when I’m dealing with immigration in India trying to tell me I can’t leave. A man who I can nuzzle up next to at night and get wrapped up in. Someone who can be there for the times when no amount of money can make me alright. Contrary to what most men thing, I don’t need a man just to give me some hard dick and a wet box, there are more efficient ways of doing that.
without my blood pressure going through the roofI need a man to be my realest fan. It’s that simple. I don’t need jewelry or shopping sprees; I just someone who turns down the comforter on my side of the bed so it’s ready when I slip in, and picks me up a Slurpee if he’s driving past a 7-Eleven.
Seattle, truth be told, if you loved the shorty then being there for her wouldn’t feel like a constant concierge service. It would feel like an honor to hold her down, knowing that one human values you enough to be her stability. You wouldn’t confuse financial independence with emotional independence, because you should know her well enough to know that money can’t buy her love.
WORD.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
That is true. It’s not a constant concierge service and I don’t confuse my PGF’s financial independence with her emotional independence. As I stated with Still Water earlier, those are independently exclusive to each other.
The point of this post was to identify when to step in during those times when your S.O. needs you. I pointed them out because, hey, it is a complicated task. This post, the questions posed and many of the subsequent answers show that it is not an arduous task, but a labor of love that we, well I, am trying to learn how to do better.
Seattle – Smoother Than Skippy Peanut Butter – Washington
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I used to think that I was “independent”, but then I realized that I wasn’t.
I’m 25 and as I get older I’m starting to realize that all the things that I do that I hear people say are the makings of an independent woman, are things that I am SUPPOSE TO F*CKING DO!
If you pay your own bills, handle your kids, got a job, yadda yadda yay, you don’t deserve admiration for that ish, you’re supposed to do that. You are an adult and those things are your responsibility. Get over yourself ’cause you ain’t doing nothing new.
There’s nothing like having a decent man in my corner. I have a team of people in my life (my parents, friends, doctors, teachers, etc.) working towards one goal: ME.
Women need to stop confusing this term to validate their bitchy attitudes.
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ildolceamore Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
“If you pay your own bills, handle your kids, got a job, yadda yadda yay, you don’t deserve admiration for that ish, you’re supposed to do that. You are an adult and those things are your responsibility. Get over yourself ’cause you ain’t doing nothing new.”
Wow. That’s so true.
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I blame Beyonce. She should be killed by a firing squad.
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Terri Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
You might delete this, but don’t blame Beyonce. Shoot, she got a grip on her own life as far as I’m concerned.
These heifers need to stop thinking their life is wrapped up in somebody’s lyrics. Girl, she AIN’T singing bout you!
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RightCoastLexSteele, Love Punany Bad Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
That retort is acceptable.
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I know this is probably gonna set the women’s movement back right now…but TAKE CARE OF MY A**..keep me barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen…with my hair in some damn pigtails..I have dreams of being the best soccer mom..housewife (no ATL)..that I can be…all I ask is that you talk a little louder while i’m walking my 20 steps behind you….ok maybe that is a little extreme but a b*tch is tired..so I guess what i’m saying is holding it all together emotionally and financially is exhausting…when women put on that “Independent” I don’t need a man for anything front they are just doing themselves a disservice…I got the house, the car, the career, the credit score (well maybe not so much with them damn law school loans)..but please believe when I need a hug..i’m saying “I need a hug”..aint no future in frontin.
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I admit I used to be that woman that was so proud of having my own thing. Then I woke up and realized I was being an adult and doing what I was supposed to be doing.
I also learned that its so much about balance. And yea I can do all this and all that on my own but I’ll admit I don’t want to do it alone.
And just like a man needs to be a man, a woman needs to be a woman. We all need somebody. And we can get so much more accomplished as two rather than one. Lets talk about it, work on it and get things done.
Having a man trying to figure you out while you are trying to handle everything like a champ is not independent, its lonely.
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the story of my life…smh
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