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Is the Jigga Man Just an Old Man?
A Sowhatiff & Seattle Fireside Chat
Seattle: So I was listening to “D.O.A.” and much like the rest of you, I was bopping my head in agreement as Jay-Z delivered line after line discrediting the new audio aid. Even though one of Jigga’s own artists uses it often, and could be credited as the reason why so many are jumping on the bandwagon, he still went in like Ron Jeremy in the ’80s. And I was happy to hear that someone finally said something about the craze and the misuse of it. I totally agree, it’s a bit much, especially from artists who aren’t accomplished and obviously lack creativity. But after all the BK repping, the “hip hop is back” shouting and the Jay-Z ring kissing, I just sat back and thought – is Jay-Z just becoming that old guy complaining about new music?
Ms. Jenkins: To Mr. Washington, I must a respectful Hell No. But sort of yes. Let me explain. In our generation, Jay-Z has been (arguably) the most consistent artist, dropping album after album with at least 3-4 tracks for the people to rock with. Not to say he hasn’t flopped a few times, but he’s still hip-hop’s leading man, if for no other reason than his ability to bring quality music for years upon years. And because when Jay talks, people listen. That said, he has earned the right to speak on the state of hip-hop. He did it when people were talking about not using the N-word. He’s called the industry out it when people weren’t putting out good music. And because of his history and his place in music, he knows what good music is made of and what rappers should be doing. Auto-tuning when you haven’t even dropped an album yet ain’t it.
SW: I agree with you, I definitely do. I respect Jay and the position he has carved out for himself. However, eventually hip hop has got to evolve or it’s going to get stagnant. Just like how every cat on the scene was continuously rapping about crack, guns and money only a few quarters back. And much like many genres there are traditionalists and then there are folks who push the limit. While Jay may be complaining about cats crooning on tracks when they should sound harder on wax, but hip hop lyrics back in the day weren’t that tough. Not to mention, I like this new Drake and Kid Cudi’s style of hip hop. At the same time, I like hearing Wale rip a track like a classic MC. It brings diversity. While I agree with Jay about the overuse of the Auto Tune, things have to change at some point. There have to be branches. Rock has a million different subsets, each with its own intricacies and fans. That’s what will solidify hip hop as a true genre.
MJ: I feel you Seattle. But adding variety to the genre shouldn’t water down the art of what hip-hop is. Or good music for that matter. You mention Drake and Kid Cudi. Love those guys. Different, yet still hip-hop. Not going OD to the left, but not necessarily doing what has been done before, the same way its been, yet still spittin bars worth listening to. Like, why are you, Mr. New Lame Rapper who hasn’t even established yourself as someone worth my 3:13 minutes of listening time, auto-tuning? Let me hear you spit a good 16 first. Drop an album. Auto-tune can’t be how you come out the gate. Because when people are tired of it, what will you do then? Oh yes, go back to being irrelevant.
SW: I don’t know, I think Cudi is left field and for the record, he uses Auto Tune sometimes. But once again, I feel you about the Auto Tune overuse Ms. Jenkins. I’m just asking if Jay is hating on progress and evolution. Yes Auto Tune is not the answer, far from it, but I do think that this new mix of R&B/Rock/Hip Hop can be.
The other question I have about all this is, Jay just relevant to us? I know most of us grew up listening to all his albums and select tracks from “Blueprint 2″ & “Kingdom Come” (even true Jay fans should admit both of those were sub par), but does that really matter to these young Thundercats? I mean every generation has their idols. I shudder to say this, but is Weezy their Jay? Is Kanye the one they will pack into Madison Square Garden for in a few years? And if so, will Jay’s new emphatic statement just get washed over by the next generation? Which is the same generation that dictates where things go from here.
MJ: No. Jay may be less relevant to these teeny hip-hoppers, but he’s still important to the Yeezys, Weezys, and Jeezys. He may not have another single out, but he still plays a role behind the scenes . When Jay says ish is wack (or fly), people be like, you know what…he might be on to something.
SW: That’s cool, but how many folks respected Bill Cosby when he said what he said? The comedians that look up to him were second guessing their acts, but most people gave him the “sit down old man” treatment. I don’t know, I just feel at a certain point Jay and the rest of us may turn into our folks – complaining that the crap on the radio isn’t real music and then turning back to the oldies station to hear some “Illmatic”. Is Jay’s “DOA” just the beginning of that?
MJ: For me, with the exception of a few current artists, yes it is. Let’s get back to the good music.
What do y’all think?
Seattle - Eh, I Still Think Nas is the Best MC – Washington
&
Sowhatiff – Yeah, but Jigga made Nas his son…twice – Jenkins
153 Responses to “Is the Jigga Man Just an Old Man?”
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WOW! I’M FIRST. Go Figure. Just had to get that in…
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 8:11 am
So, apparently we’re getting old and starting to get like our folks. But at least we have more of a point. When our parents listened to PAC, BIG, JAY n NAS (to name a few) they couldn’t fathom they lyrical fire these poets were spitting. One because they were so raw and honest and two, b/c they began to push the limits of what hip hop was. Now I concur that Drake and Cudi are some of the doper new artist, however it seems as though w/a majority of the music there is not substance. Hence DOA! The only songs majority of these current artist bring out talk about money, ho’s, and must be accompanied by a new dance move. I mean, its as though there aren’t any social issues taking place in the hip hop community any more. You can only dance and shake your a$s so much. Also, I guarantee, a majority of the music that has come out lately (even the one you mistakingly bob your head to i.e. “Get Your Swag On” by Soldier Boy) you will not even give a second listen to in 10 years, let alone 365 days (366 on a leap year). That’s all i got for now. Be back later…
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ildolceamore [formerly Southern Belle] Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Co-sign. I’m always raving about the Black List, but Vol. 1 with Rev. Al Sharpton is really great. He talks about modern hip-hop as being simple minded, it aims to accomplish trivial things like “money, cars, & hoes.” Slaves used to create music of ambition, ambition to be free and find a better life. Social issues was what music in the Black community used to be about and now it’s just about social trends. Biggie’s album Ready To Die (1994) featured songs like “Warning” (a favorite) and “Suicidal Thoughts” and those topics were largely abandoned by artists after his time. Eminem had to be the one to pick up that motif (smh, sorry all you Marshall Mathers fans) when so many talented rappers before the White Knight should have been on it first.
Just my 25 cents.
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I will admit that I STAN for Jay. In my senior memory book (maybe I’m dating myself) his pictures are all over it as my favorite rapper. And he still is. I do think he is turning into the old guy, the young folk don’t feel him like the 20-30 somethings do, esp those that been fans since that Reasonable Doubt. But these kids love Kanye and he’s not really a spring chicken either. I guess he just started his career later in life in comparison to Jay and Nas. I read on another site that Jay is the “Oprah” of hip hop. he has mad influence, and I think I agree with it. I also go hard for Wale, Drake and I like Cudi too–but to me they are still hip hop. not bullshit. a lot of stuff crowding the club, airwaves, tv, and internets is bullshit (am I being a hater? Ive been called one a lot when it comes to my hip hop preferences, LOL). I agree with Ms. Jenkins on this one…
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Yes, Jay is an old man complaining and rightly so. The Stanky Leg? Seriously? Making the chorus of your song the first 4 bars of your verse? Come on, with an exception of a few standouts, new hip hop is basura. I rock w/ Yeezy and Weezy, but I gotta turn them off when their music makes me feel like I’m on acid.
I guess this is a question of protocol (deference). Jay sure as hell has earned the right to question the current state of hip hop. And at the end of the day if he sits idly by in silence, it’s his fault.
Nas? ………………………………………… ……. .
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Lol. I don’t stanky leg nor do I swag surf. I will heel toe and log on for special occasions, but that’s neither here nor there.
I agree with you, hip hop is and has been at a lyrical standstill for awhile now. I’d say since Lil’ Jon hit the scene, but that’s just me. I’m not faulting Jay for DOA, I despise auto tune as well, all I’m asking is… Is Jay just that old dude screaming to kids to get off his lawn now?
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:40 am
LMAO @ log on and heel toe. I’m so dead, like really. I’m dying of laughter.
As horrible as it is, Stanky Leg is my shizzle. I stanky leg on the train on the le-low.
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:53 am
LoL So do I, Ashbunnie hehehe
@Seattle, Log on? That is so 2001. C’mon! Give ‘em a run! Or at least Bad Man pull up!
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:45 am
He is as he should be. I have a lawn now and if I could shoot every fatherless child that drops trash on it, I would.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Speaking of that… you gotta put up a small picket fence or something man. Just to block it off a little. Need that area for chipping.
Bout to bring the clubs next time I come upstate.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am
He maybe the old man screaming get off my lawn but thats only because these kids are no where near on the quality level on the art. Swag N Surfin and having “YOUR ACE BOON COON CHICK DO THE STANKY LEG” is prime examples of the stagnant hip hop you refered to and not ‘the evolution’ that you mentioned needs to happen…it’s just plain COONERY at it’s worst.
We can never go back to the golden ages of the 90s but thats no excuse to make a song about ‘SWAG N Surfin”….SMH!
BBW
-Anti-florescent/Autotune/OD thuggin & non sense hip hop fan
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Oh and Nas said his peace about the state of hip hop when Weezy first started popping off at the mouth about being the best. Then he did it again when he dropped “Hip Hop is Dead” and “The N” . Now he’s too busy taking on Fox News.
Auto Tune vs. Fox News, Auto Tune vs. Fox News…
I’d rather him take on Fox News.
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Let it be known that Jay in my book is the G.O.A.T. Not the best in any particular category but is at least top 10 in all hip hop criteria. He said it best when he said: “I’m the all time heavy weight champion of flowers, I’m leading the league in at least six statistical categories right now. Best flow, Most consistent, Realest stories Most charisma, I set the most trends And my interviews are hotter”.
I also think that we judge Jay on a whole nother scale. What he’s puttin out now would be good for another artist. If Fab or anyone else who was hot in 2002 put out Blueprint 2 (BTW, if disc 2 was its own album, it might have been a classic) that joint would have been a classic.
On another note, Weezy be spitting fire. I’ll talk on this later
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Whoa whoa whoa. Are you talking about mixtape Weezy or drop an album/actual song Weezy? B/c those are two separate ppl. The Carter 3 didn’t live up to the hype and neither did a lot of his features.
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:23 am
I concur…. Weezy via mixtape is sooooooooo nicer than the Martian via album. Carter 3 was not hot. I’d rather Weezy on someone else’s song than his own.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Mixtape Weezy. Weezy hasn’t dropped a solid album since The Carter.
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Please dont start the Jay-Nas debate. Please I beg you.
I think Jay runs hip hop still, and the King has the right to speak on the state of affairs.
We all know autotune is gettin played. Jays just the first to officially speak out on it.
He sd that T-Pain and Weezy/Yeezyis cool using it, but evveryone else should stay in their lane, and I agree.
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JAY-Z is the epitome of what true rap is (aside from the great Rakim). Point. Blank. Period.
Jay-Z has every right to complain about autotune because people are using autotune as an excuse not to actually have talent. He set the bar for so many rappers. Using autotune is like a slap in the face for so many other artists who had to PROVE themselves to us people. What happened to freestyling over other people’s tracks (i.e. early g-unit circa g-unit is the future mixtape)?
I will admit that Blueprint 2 & Kingdom Come were OK albums. Like peyso said had the second disc on Blueprint 2 been its own album, it totally would have been a classic. Dynasty was by far my least favorite.
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Reecie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Dynasty was my least favorite as well, but This Can’t Be Life is a banger. Kingdom Come actually grew on me and I dig it.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Three tracks – “Lost Ones”, “Do You Want to Ride” & “Beach Chair” (which is fire)
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Reecie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:57 am
HAHA, funny the song Kingdom Come just came on–I got a Jay Z mix going. My faves are this one, Oh My God, and Dig a Hole.
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ildolceamore [formerly Southern Belle] Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Easy, Beach Chair FTW.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:09 am
BP2 and kingdom come were trash. Vol3 was mediocre(but got some trax) Dynasty was a compilation album idk what soundscan says
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CHeeKZ Is Hip Hop and He doesn't respect your Opinion Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:09 am
actually my less fav is Vol. 2, and that is the only one that I legally bought. It was hot at the time, but it really didn’t age well.
Other than Hard Knock Life, does anybody really go back and listen to Vol 2? Atleast Vol 3 had those Primo Cut. And the Dynasty was the beginning of the Soul Sample revolution (which is another example of hip hop going to one well too much)
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Reecie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Outside of HKL, the only other songs I still really listen to are Jigga what Jigga who, and Money Cash Hoes. that’s about it, LOL.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:28 am
I think it aged well…Money Cash Hos, Ride or Die, Resevoir Dogs w/ the Lox and ya boy Sauce Money (shout out to BBW and Mikey the Great for puttin me on to Sauce $ and Big L). Don’t rock Vol. 1 as much tho…
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Reecie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:30 am
see and I love vol. 1. its one of my favorites. everyone has their preferences.
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I admit; I’ve never been the biggest Jay-Z fan. Although I agree with him to a certain point b/c D.O.A. seems to be about not just overuse of the autotune, but just the wack stuff that is coming out in hip hop in general and how the genre seems to be flooded by corny songs with wack lyrics and catchy hooks. However, hip-hop needs variety and to evolve. The problem is when all that is in the mainstream is a certain type of hip-hop or “hip pop.” Nonetheless, you need songs that you can just vibe to on certain occasions, others just for when you’re driving, songs for the club, etc. I think they all have their place in hip hop, even the corniest rappers have their place in hip hop b/c if they did not exist, how could we really tell who was good? Further, they provide great subject matter for other more lyrically adept MCs.
Don’t get me wrong, I do miss the hip hop of the late 80’s and 90’s and the last rap album I purchased was “The Best of the Boot Camp Clik” and I need to replace my “Only Built 4 Cuban Linx…” But I understand that with time, things do change and it’s not all bad.
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Disclaimer: I am a fan of jay, but not a stan of jay. I am also a hip hop artist/producer. Here is my shameless plug:
http://www.true2lifemusic.net, twitter.com/true2lifemusic, youtube.com/true2lifemusic
now that that’s out the way… i wanted to pose a question:
do you think differently about the use of autotune cause jay “killed it”? Or does his DOA song represent how you feel about it?
I honestly think people get wrapped up in the whole “autotune” thing too much. whack music is whack music.. and dope music w/ autotune being used shouldn’t lower the level of dopeness. i think this DOA track might be more trying to re-represent/market a feeling rather than actually trying to kill autotune…. i mean, do people care about the effect being used or just the barrage of whack music that uses autotune? if the latter’s the case, then i’d rather hate on ALL whack music, no discrimination. i’m no bigot.
on another note….
jim jones says something to the effect of “people are gettin’ money with autotune.. sounds like jay is knocking people’s hustle.. and that’s not gangsta to me”.
although jones has public problems with jigga, that’s an interesting point. is jay “mr. can’t knock the hustle” z being hypocritical???
I dunno…
- G&B
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:37 am
I do agree with the points you raised, but please name me one HOT song (HOT as in lyrical content and playability from beginning to end) that uses autotune???
Go ‘head, I’ll wait…
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Amazing/Heartless/Say you will
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:52 am
GTFOH with heartless. I’m sorry Kanye needs to sit his sad ass down. That song was a waste of a hot track.
The other 2, eh maybe.
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CHeeKZ Is Hip Hop and He doesn't respect your Opinion Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:04 am
the only thing good about say you will is the fact that Drake RIPPED the beat.
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ildolceamore [formerly Southern Belle] Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
I have to agree with Streetz on Heartless & Amazing being hot autotune tracks. Flight School FTW as well.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:42 am
plenty come to mind, but does the song have to use autotune on the whole record?
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am
whole record, one verse, a syllable whatever. Criteria:
Lyrical Content & Playability on your IPOD from BEGINNING TO END.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:10 am
ok, rather than list songs with autotune i like for it to be shot down as not being dope, can you tell me songs with autotune you think you would like better without it?
my point is just that a whack song is simply whack. don’t think autotune can really make or break it.
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CHeeKZ Is Hip Hop and He doesn't respect your Opinion Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:53 am
actually. Gun and Butter has a hot song with some dope lyrics with autotune called flight school. BUT HE USES THE TUNE VERY LIGHTLY! We shameless plug often.
But here is where I disagree with Guns, my major gripe with ‘Tune is the fact that is became trendy. It was great when it was T-Pains gimmick. He made great music with it.
But why is everyone using it now. Why do you have to make every song sound the same. Sure Ye is better than Webstar, but do I really need them BOTH to sound like R2D2. Can’t I, as the greatest hip hop fan in the world, get diversity.
If anyone listen to Hov’s interview with Angie the day after SummerJam he said that clearly. Every record can’t have it. Dope or not, we can’t all sound the same, Guns. B/c even if everyone sounded great with tune (that is a far from the truth) when you sound the same it comes off as unoriginal and wack.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:57 am
You def can’t knock the hustle, but if you on a block where everybody is hustling the same product and getting their re-up from the same spot, then what are you doin? Sure you getting money, but if step outside the box, you’ll get more money and your custees will appreciate you for it.
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
“You def can’t knock the hustle, but if you on a block where everybody is hustling the same product and getting their re-up from the same spot, then what are you doin? Sure you getting money, but if step outside the box, you’ll get more money and your custees will appreciate you for it.”
THAT’S THE REALIST SHIT I NEVER WROTE!
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First off….. Ms Jenkins. Nas Won the battle. Hands down no argueing. Ether was so strong it now has become part of our vocabulary. Like ohhh Jay just ethered autotune. And Nas is pound for pound a better rapper due to his diversity. When Jay has tried to be deep it doesn’t work. He can only rap about him self. Nas can go street, than go club, than go back street on the same verse. And the Depth of his rhymes FOR A GANGSTA RAPPER is unparallelled.
Only people who think Hov is better cite such ignorant points as
“He has better beats”
“He is a better business man”
“He has more influence”
Rhyme for Rhyme the answer is God Son.
THAT IS POST ONE. So much more to talk about.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:47 am
cheekz comments on blogs in autotune.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Oh dear. If you weren’t Slim’s boy I’d log in and administratively remove this f*ckery you call a comment. Ether was cool. Blueprint 2- The Curse – Track 7. Holla at me.
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CHeeKZ Is Hip Hop and He doesn't respect your Opinion Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Wrong my cyber freind. Dead Wrong. That track didn’t live up to Ether and you know it.
No wasted lines. No pulled punches. No statements saying sorry for talking about your baby mama.
Ether is the greatest battlerap ever. From the End of the 2nd verse to the closing of the song No Filler all Gay-z killer. SMH @ Hov stans trying to re-write history.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:13 am
So Nas won the battle but now he works for Jay? That would be like the US dropping bombs in Hiroshima n’ Nagasaki then us being their bitch. Backwards my friend. We could go on all day about this, but after Nas picks up his check from da Boss, ask him who won.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:21 am
a rap battle doesn’t show dominance or decide who’s more powerful. it decides who’s better at rap battling.
so, the US/Japan metaphor doesn’t really correlate to hip-hop.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:30 am
First off, this is exactly what Jay fans do… they state his business acumen as a reason why he’s a better MC. If that’s the case then Rakim, KRS One and Big Daddy Kane aren’t great MCs.
Secondly, yes, Jay is a great businessman; but if we’re going to take it there – he didn’t do too well as the President of Def Jam. He does great when he’s doing for self, but not running a whole organization. Folks in the industry as well as other Def Jam artists will attest to that.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:54 am
And all Nas fans do is bring up Ether. Let’s say for a second I lost my mind and conceded that Nas won that particular battle….seriously….Nas is def a good MC, but this statement : “Rhyme for Rhyme the answer is God Son” is ludicris. Nas don’t want it w/ Hov.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:57 am
We are Japan’s bitch. Have you seen our import to export rates lately?
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Secondly, the battle was on the radio. Specifically, Hot 97. How are you going to take a shot way after the fact and it’s buried deep on a 2 disc album? That’s not a battle track, that’s suss.
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
“Secondly, yes, Jay is a great businessman; but if we’re going to take it there – he didn’t do too well as the President of Def Jam. He does great when he’s doing for self, but not running a whole organization.”
False my friend! Rihanna, Jeezy, Rick Ross, Ne-Yo, Fab (just to name a few) were all new and eventually PLATINUM ARTIST under President Hovito Carter. Check the soundscans my friend…
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
There are artists, like Ghostface and Method Man, who would disagree with that statement.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
“Rihanna, Jeezy, Rick Ross, Ne-Yo, Fab (just to name a few) were all new and eventually PLATINUM ARTIST under President Hovito Carter.”
What soundscan you checking? A Ross album never went plat (unless u count ringtones). And Fab never went plat on Def jam.
The only act you name that he actually signed was Rhianna (press whore) and Ross. The rest were hold overs from the previous regime that only drop while he was in charge.
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Remi Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:04 am
@ Cheekz – I actually agree with you. When people talk about Jay-Z being a better rapper than Nas, it never has to do with lyrical content, which I thought was the whole point of rap battles. Anywho, lyrically Nas is just better, although he is not a better business man. Yes, Jay is a good rapper, but he is a superb business man and that is what people mistake as making him a better MC than Nas.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Jay lost the battle just accept it yall
thats why bp2 sucked. the whole album was a “yall should liek me bec im better than nas” whinefest!
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Reecie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:24 am
as a Jay stan I can still admit Nas won the battle. I might be the only one though, LOL. I love Nas too! it is possible!
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
While I will admit Nas won the battle… think about this:
jay’s response was a freestyle ETHER took how long to come out and it was written, no?
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LoudPen Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
I’m sorry but, you shouldn’t have brought up the Nas vs. HOV debate. We all know where this one will end up. So let me say this, ” know you missin all the – FAAAAAAAME!
But along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your frame
Nigga; you a – LAAAAAAAME!
Youse the fag model for Karl Kani/Esco ads
Went from, Nasty Nas to Esco’s trash
Had a spark when you started but now you’re just garbage
Fell from top ten to not mentioned at all
to your bodyguard’s “Oochie Wally” verse better than yours
Matter fact you had the worst flow on the whole fuckin song
but I know – the sun don’t shine, then son don’t shine
That’s why your – LAAAAAAAME! – career come to a end
There’s only so long fake thugs can pretend
Nigga; you ain’t live it you witnessed it from your folks pad
You scribbled in your notepad and created your life
I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor
(Me, that’s who!) Then I heard your album bout your tec on the dresser
So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song
And you ain’t get a coin nigga you was gettin fucked and
I know who I paid God, Serchlite Publishing
Use your – BRAAAAAAAIN! You said you been in this ten
I’ve been in it five – smarten up Nas
Four albums in ten years nigga? I can divide
That’s one every let’s say two, two of them shits was due
One was – NAHHH, the other was “Illmatic”
That’s a one hot album every ten year average
And that’s so – LAAAAAAAME! Nigga switch up your flow
Your shit is garbage, but you try and kick knowledge?
(Get the fuck outta here) You niggaz gon’ learn to respect the king
Don’t be the next contestant on that Summer Jam screen
Because you know who (who) did you know what (what)
with you know who (yeah) but just keep that between me and you for now”
So after reading that verse, (and b/c I like Nas) let’s agree to disagree on who’s the better MC. Both Jay and Nas have skills it simply depends on who you PREFER.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Let’s see how you feel after reading this:
When these streets keep callin, heard it when I was sleep
That this Gay-Z and Cockafella Records wanted beef
Started cockin up my weapon, slowly loadin up this ammo
To explode it on a camel, and his soldiers, I can handle
This for dolo and it’s manuscript, just sound stupid
When KRS already made an album called Blueprint
First, Biggie’s ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big
Dick suckin lips, whyn’t you let the late, great veteran live
[talking]
(I…will…not…lose)
“God’s son” across the belly, I prove you lost already
The king is back, where my crown at?
(Ill…will) Ill Will rest in peace, let’s do it niggas
[Chorus]
Y’all niggas deal with emotions like bitches
What’s sad is I love you ’cause you’re my brother
You traded your soul for riches
My child, I’ve watched you grow up to be famous
And now I smile like a proud dad, watchin his only son that made it
You seem to be only concerned with dissin women
Were you abused as a child, scared to smile, they called you ugly?
Well life is hard, hug me, don’t reject me
Or make records to disrespect me, blatent or indirectly
In ’88 you was gettin chased through your buildin
Callin my crib and I ain’t even give you my numbers
All I did was gave you a style for you to run with
Smilin in my face, glad to break bread with the god
Wearin Jaz chains, no tecs, no cash, no cars
No jail bars Jigga, no pies, no case
Just Hawaiian shirts, hangin with little Chase
You a fan, a phony, a fake, a pussy, a Stan
I still whip your ass, you thirty-six in a karate class
You Tae-bo hoe, tryna’ work it out, you tryna’ get brolic?
Ask me if I’m tryna’ kick knowledge
Nah, I’m tryna’ kick the shit you need to learn though
That ether, that shit that make your soul burn slow
Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?
Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he’s Puffy
Rockafeller died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter
And that’s the guy y’all chose to name your company after?
Put it together, I rock hoes, y’all rock fellas
And now y’all try to take my spot, fellas?
Philly’s hot rock fellas, put you in a dry spot, fellas
In a pine box with nine shots from my glock, fellas
Foxy got you hot ’cause you kept your face in her puss
What you think, you gettin girls now ’cause of your looks?
Ne-gro please
You no mustache havin, with whiskers like a rat
Compared to Beans you wack
And your man stabbed Un and made you take the blame
You ass, went from Jaz to hangin with Caine, to Herb, to Big
And, Eminem murdered you on your own shit
You a dick-ridin faggot, you love the attention
Queens niggas run you niggas, ask Russell Simmons
Ha, R-O-C get gunned up and clapped quick
J.J. Evans get gunned up and clapped quick
Your whole damn record label gunned up and clapped quick
Shaun Carter to Jay-Z, damn you on Jaz dick
So little shorty’s gettin gunned up and clapped quick
How much of Biggie’s rhymes is gon’ come out your fat lips?
Wanted to be on every last one of my classics
You pop shit, apologize, nigga, just ask Kiss
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Very good debt. I like how SW uses the term “evolve” in explaining how Jay could possibly be hating on the “evolution” of the game and without evolution the art will be stagnant.
First, I know you have been enjoying the life of the northwest but I thing the hip hop era is the stagnant position you are referring to in your previous comments. We are clearly in an era of hip hop where the art of the ‘piggyback’ is the bastard move of the month and it’s sickening.
I think this song was needed to give hip hop that nudge because the game has been nodding off like a dope fiend into stupidity, unoriginal and lack of creativity. You can attest to that because even yourself have found yourself listening to off brand cats (i.e. Spank Rock, Jay Electronica, Diplo, Dert Floyd & The Cool Kids). And why? You already know the answer to that one chief and we have had endless discussions on how weak the industry is these days.
So at the end of the day, it might be a cynical old man position Jay-Z is playing but let’s not act like we are in an era of hip hop where the creativity is overflowing and splashing all over the place. If that was the case, you and many others wouldn’t even give D.O.A two seconds of your life.
All Jay-Z did was say what most of us have been saying to each other in various conversations around the current state of hip hop.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:09 am
And y’know what, I respect that answer. No Jay biggin up, no defensive Stan-ish answers. Just the real.
However, question for you – When Jay was saying to stop singing on tracks, do you think he was talking about Drake and Cudi? Forget the kids that won’t be around in 2 weeks, talking about these budding artists.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Thank you! I think Jay might be getting at them but if he is I think it could be a good thing for someone like Drake.
As a budding artist, I think he should take these comments and challenge his craft. You know the approach of pushing those with potential. An artist like Drake has tremendous potential, he is topping his boy Lil Wayne lyrically. But it can all be relative because Drake is on Jay-Z’s next single.
I’m purposely not mentioning Cudi because he is clearly losing his luster to a talent like Drake.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:42 am
I reread your answer and have another point for you to pontificate about. Seemed like the whole thing (I’m listening to it again now) was about Auto Tune and toughing up hip hop.
As I stated before, when hip hop was birthed it wasn’t all gangsta ish. That’s actually when hip hop deviated from what it was indoctrinated as.
Also you’ll have to forgive me, I tend to disregard the Webstars (sp?) and other no name artists. When I wrote this I just thought about the cats I listen to that may fall into this category. And if that’s the case, I still think Jay is hating on the ebb and flow of a culture. It can’t be all gangsta shit all the time.
Lest we forget that one of the biggest gangsta rappers used to be with Humpty and the Digital Underground.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Well you can’t fuck up the game if you force people to look at their creative contribution to the game. As an up and coming artist right now, Jay-Z just mad it challenging even for the guy in his basement to contribute to the game.
Maybe hip hop should toughen up a bit. When I mean toughen up, it probably needs to make it seem challenging or create an err that this is not a profession for those that just don’t take it seriously. I just hope this eliminates the complacency of artists and the type of art they contribute to hip hop. And you’re right, it cannot be gangsta all the time but remember what Jay-Z said in that song. “I don’t be in a project hall way, rapping about how I be in the projects all day”
Like he said on HOT 97, its the trending affect that is slightly killing the game. It’s great if one or two people do it and do it well. But it doesn’t mean everyone should be going in that direction. I mean Diddy was/still might be making an all autotune album. If DOA didnt come out, I think that album would hav killed autotune all by itself.
Lastly, Digital Underground was not in an area where the song “Doing the Humpty Hump” had a prequel to it. There was a balance and we all know digital underground was far from GANGSTA so they techincally challenged themselves and went to the left…
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Agree BBW. This auto tune crap is akin to 04-06 when everything was about having Lil Jon on ya track.
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Talking about the current State of Hip Hop is such a touchy subject for so many people. Especially cats to the North of the US. So I will avoid the battle.
But regarding the actual article above, I co-sign with Seattle. First off, MJ, I wonder, are you implying that in order to be able to use Autotune, you have to be an established MC first? I think that is some flawed reasoning right there. While I agree the over usage of Autotune is reaching a fever pitch (when MJB starts doin’ it, its a wrap!), I don’t think you need a Doctorate in Hip Hop b4 you are cleared to use it.
And whether ya’ll like it or not, you are OLD! The new age of Hip Hop is coming with or without your support, sadly, so you can keep listening to Reasonable Doubt all you want, but it won’t really make much of a difference. I can’t really stand Soulja Boy’s lack of lyrical talent, but the kids wanna turn their swag on, so I’mma let ‘em!
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:18 am
yeeeeeeeaaaaaahhhh, i’m gettin’ moneyyyyyyyy ohhhhhhhhh
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:21 am
My dear MJB did use it, Her new song with Drake titled The One. She used it and effed up the whole song, IMO.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:23 am
I think that song is DOPE
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:41 am
that song is terrible. But she has another song with T.I. that has this late 70′s very open feel to it. I love it.
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:33 am
I think the MJB song takes some gettin used to. Also imho, Keri Hilson killed Soulja Boy on her remix of Swag On.
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Reecie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:43 am
yes! that keri hilson remix is hot!
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Ainz Neal Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Yea Mary used it in her new song, but i don’t think she sounded bad with it.
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CHeeKZ ALWAYS LIKED THE MOVIE GRUMPY OLD MEN Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Boooooooooooooo!
Kids don’t know what they want. Its up to adults to tell them. If what you are saying it true, why were Biggie and Nas ever popular? They never made kid music. This isn’t a kid genre. Ninja this is hip hop not Nickelondean.
“Especially cats to the North of the US. So I will avoid the battle”
You are from the South aren’t you? Thanks for killing my culture.
Now you may say “CheeKZ aren’t you being an old man. You remember when you use to bump OPP and those old timers use to say ‘This aint as good as Kurits Blow’. You use to call them old men.”
The reason why I am right and they are wrong is that this southern cr@p is technically the worst music ever produced by our culture. Less punchlines, slower flowers, beats lack fullness, is delivery horrible, more repeative lines, poor mixing. When you go from the old school to the golden age you can here the growth of MCing, new tricks and literary tools each generation brought to the craft. WHY ARE WE MOVING BACKWARDS NOW!
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Cheekz, my dear e-friend, this is by far the most clear and accurate point you have made that I have ever witnessed. Aside from T.I., Jeezy, UGK & Scarface, there is no one from the south that will ever hold my attention. The music down there is made for dancing. Hence all these random dances.
It’s OK. I think I have to get used to the MJB song.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:46 am
no outkast?
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Oops I 4got about Outkast!
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:49 am
LoL Ok Cheekz,
I am not from the South, actually, I am more North than you, so by your reasoning, I am more literate than you, so peep the technique:
Biggie & Nas were popular b/c they made great music. they made Good NYC-style rap and they were lauded by the rest of the world, when they caught on. The same can be said for Tupac, Dr. Dre and Ice Cube. They made good West-coast Rap. UGK, 8ball & MJG Jeezy & Weezy make good Southern Rap. You get the point I am making.
Ron Browz is from NYC and he is not makin what is considered (by some) good Rap; just like B-Hamp (lol) from Houston is not making what is considered by some, good Rap.
Saying the South makes the worst music produced by the Culture is your opinion. Alot of people like Southern Rap! They make music geared towards a specific audience based on how they were brought up, just like you Brooklynites do.
And do you have any Children? B/c if you did, you would know that kids always do the opposite of what YOU tell them. The truth is, I can’t pay my little sister to listen to Illmatic – thats real talk!!
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
that just means ur little sister has whack taste in hip hop, tho.
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
This is tru. She likes it dumbed-down.
See this is why I moved on to R&B years ago…
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Lupe Fiasco – Dumb it Down
Real Talk.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I use Illmatic like a night light cuz it puts me to sleep.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
O Canada?
Well your countries healthcare system is creating an economic tax strain on your wealthy, forcing them to invest outside of her borders and creating a situation where all good toronto raptors want to leave to avoid the taxes. KNICK GET BOSH IN 2010, how does that make you feel?!?!
Listen, this isn’t about opinions. This is about facts, its a fact that the GS Boys, Ron Browz, and Webstar make bad music. Its a fact that is is popular. It is also a fact that the intelligence level of those who listen to commercial rap is lower than those that listen to alternatives.
So what if your sister doesn’t like good rap, the hell with her. Popular opinion doesn’t decide what is good or bad. Professional critics and historians do that. So I care less that my favs don’t sell, but don’t pretend that what does sell is good. Its bad music and its hurtign my culture. And instead of just letting these kids have their way, we need to teach them what is good music and how an MC is suppose to sound.
And you need to get your sister to listen to some Lauryn Hill before she ends up on a pole underneath flying one dollor bills.
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Hahah funny funny stuff.
1st: I have no loyalty to the Raptors. Edmonton Oilers ALL DAY!
Cheekz said:
“Popular opinion doesn’t decide what is good or bad. Professional critics and historians do that”
I have a problem with that statement. I don’t rely on critics & historians to tell me what is good or bad. I rely on my own ears and my own mind. Though I will agree with you that the consistent dumbing down of music is contributing to the overall dumbing down of our Youth in general.
Still, gives you no right to be talkin’ bout my Sister like she on the path to becoming a Skripper… you know you will front row with your dollas in hand! So hypocritical
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
LOL…Grumpy Old Men was the ish! “I’ve laid more pipe in this town than Wabasha Plumbing!!”
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
No hating on the neighbors to the north!!!!!! (Canada)I’m not having that…where do u think all the video girls come from?..oh wait thats not really a good thing is it?….i’ll sit down now
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DDYBtheGreat Reply:
June 15th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Jay z made the song to get people talking…it obviously worked. To old boy cheeks….The south is who kept hip hop alive when the east coast boom bap bs fell off. When I’m in the car I wanna hear lyrics, not just east coast lyrics but real lyrics. These can come from any region. If auto tune is what helps a artist get o more power 2 them….but bad music is bad music. Aside from the old rappers from the east coast Jay z, nas, 50 cent the east coast aint relavant….the south makes car n club music, so like like Pimp C said “Quit hatin tha south” Jim jones killed ur culture!!!!
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
June 13th, 2009 at 12:20 am
“First off, MJ, I wonder, are you implying that in order to be able to use Autotune, you have to be an established MC first?”
Nope, that’s not what I’m implying. Just be an MC. Period. Dudes “rhyming” through autotune on their first track(s) out? In the rap game? I just can’t take them seriously as MCs. Mostly b/c what we have been hearing from the new dudes using the autotune are not quality lyrics. Autotuning is a fad. If you are spitting fiyah behind the voice thingy, get it in. If not, work on your rhymes, and then try again.
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i was just thinking… what if jayz’s song puts antares out of business? all the people who work for that company out of work in this recession…
should kids starve because whack rappers use autotune causing jay to make a death of autotune song putting the company that makes it outta business???
this shit is unfair to the kids…
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Music doesn’t go out of business. People will alway love music.
If Jay-z puts SRC out of business and killed all the autotune related artist, Interscope will just take all the shine with there hardcore rap acts.
That is what I like most about D.O.A., if Webstar gets less spins maybe SlaughterHouse (THE GREATEST THING TO HAPPEN TO RAP SINCE DOOR KNOCKER EAR-RINGS) will get more play. And Blu and Pac Div and Jay Rock and another more creative artist.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Can you recommend/send me some of Blu’s joints? I heard some folks comparing him to a young Nas.
seattlexwa@gmail.com
By the way, who’s Jay Rock?
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
oooo. Jay Rock. West coast blood gangsta rapper. Won’t make you think, but will hit you over the head with multi and punchlines.
Also see Nippsey Hussle for more west coast dudes with punchlines.
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i’m late on this one but i do feel like jay has become the old man. i’m still a fan and believe he is still top 5 in the game (that’s really saying something about mainstream rap too).
i’m with most of y’all on the nas/jay battle. nas killed him. nas gets almost none of the credit he deserves. his last album “untitled” (read: nigger) could have easily been the best rap album of the year (better than carter 3, better than american gangster). he doesn’t get the credit he deserves because i feel people don’t want to think when listening to rap. only nod their heads to the beat and hear a catchy hook.
******
in the original post
“I like this new Drake and Kid Cudi’s style of hip hop. At the same time, I like hearing Wale rip a track like a classic MC. It brings diversity.” ~Sowhatiff
-i’m with you on this. i’m really feeling the new generation of hip-hop (different than rap). my list of favorite new artists are wale (stand up dmv), kidz in the hall, cool kids and kid cudi. these are artists that actually have talent and are starting to get their just dues.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Hey fam, I hate doing this, but it was me who said that. Big fan of those cats, think they’re doing the damn thing. But, have you listened to Jay Electronica? Act 1: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is the truth (once you get past the 6 min intro). Shout out to G.o.D. for putting me on!
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Tunde Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
my bad. lol.
Jay Electronica huh? I’ll have to check it out.
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I’m co-signing with Mr.Seattle on this one..Jay is going thru a mid-life crisis..did u see his hair
tupeeas of late? Love him to death..but dude is getting cranky..one min he announces retirement the next he’s bitching bout skinny jeans and cursing in patois “stop your blodclott crying” (loves it)After all that haterage you would think I am not a jay fan- I am..and D.O.A was really needed…the hip-hop scene is quite boring lately.really. He was just reverberating what has been on a lot of the 25yr+ crowd’s mind…I look forward to what else he got to say..let the games begin!!???
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great post, until sowhatiff OD’ on the Nas comment.
1.Made Nas his son twice??? Nas gave birth to Jay by agreeing to the sample for Dead Presidents.
2. Have you even listened to the lyrics from Ether???
3. If you talking about Nas joining Def Jam, check out the transcript from All Eyes on Jay Z and Nas. You want the link ???
Check yaself when you talking about a legend, sounding like a real “Black Girl Lost”
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
wow.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
1 hot album in 10 years? That’s Lame. And so is Nas. He needs much more than one mic.
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ildolceamore [formerly Southern Belle] Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
“he needs much more than one mic.”
:RAVES: agreed.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Oh yea…”I know who I paid God…Searchlight Publishing.”
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Tunde Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
This for dolo and it’s manuscript, just sound stupid//
When KRS already made an album called Blueprint//
First, Biggie’s ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big//
Dick suckin lips, why not let the late, great veteran live//
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
“A wise man told me don’t argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who”
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Tunde Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
wait..how about…
Put it together, I rock hoes, y’all rock fellas
And now y’all try to take my spot, fellas?
Philly’s hot rock fellas, put you in a dry spot, fellas
In a pine box with nine shots from my glock, fellas
Foxy got you hot ’cause you kept your face in her puss
What you think, you gettin girls now ’cause of your looks?
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Hun, you do know that Jay-Z payed for the sample from McSerch, the man who owns the publishing for that song????
How long did it take for Ether to come out?!? I would hope there is lyrical content to it because he had ample time to WRITE THE SONG.
Nas on a record label that J-Z was president of speaks VOLUMES. Not to mention, Jay was NEVER SIGNED TO ANYONE’S LABEL.
For the record, Nas is iight but he aint REAL. Oochie Wally? Really? Hottest album he dropped was illmatic and nastradamus. All of which are circa the 90′s. Here in the 2000′s we’re going to need your boy NAS to step his game up and drop an album that is reminiscent of illmatic. Until then, NAS IS WHACK!!!!
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Tunde Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
“Nas on a record label that J-Z was president of speaks VOLUMES. Not to mention, Jay was NEVER SIGNED TO ANYONE’S LABEL.”
*whistling*
http://www.gigwise.com/news/42885/Jay-Z-%5CSigns-Massive-Deal-With-Live-Nation%5C
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Jay spit “Takeover” at Summer Jam (the Nas’ diss came out later), Nas spit “Stillmatic”, Jay spit “Superugly”, Nas hit him with Ether. Nas didn’t have ample time, the tracks pretty much came in succession.
Also , Jay has several tracks which were shitty, but Nas haters always bring up “Oochie Wally”. Not to mention, that was off a QB compilation album, not a Nas one. Jay’s compilation joint wasn’t exactly a gem.
Lastly “It Was Written” was one of Nas’ toughest albums. But if we’re talking post 2000, I would suggest you listen to “Stillmatic”, “Hip Hop is Dead” and “Untitled” which are all critically acclaimed. “God Son” is also a great LP, but didn’t get that much media.
Everyone has their opinion, but to say “Nas is whack” is quite ignorant. With all these stats, no one can deny that he is one of the greatest MCs ever.
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NasForever Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
shorty how old are you??? yes I said shorty because you sound like a “youngin”. Were you old enough to cop the albums at the time these classic albums came out.
Do you know the background of McSearch and Nas.
Can you name a Serch song??? Do you know the dynamics of it all?
Have you checked out the ASCAP website. I’m sorry do you know what that is? You started naming albums at the time you could probably old enough to put on a radio. Let me guess who you’re favorite MC??? Is it Plies or Flo-Rida. Ridiculous isnt it???
Do your research shorty before you come and battle with the realness?? Are you too a ” Black Girl Lost”
Check the catalog
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
well damn who pissed in your apple jacks?!?
Really, I am young. So youngin doesn’t bother me. No, plies nor florida is my favorite rapper. Actual favorite rappers are Jay-Z & Rakim. So with that said. You have your opinion “NasForever”. I have mine. Jay is nicer than nas is my opinion.
For the record, I know very well what ASCAP is. I’m still cashing my brother’s checks from ASCAP.
When I say he was never signed to a label I mean, he never was signed to a label for the albums in his catalog.
Let me state this again, in all caps for emphasis…
imo, NAS IS WHACK. POINT. BLANK. PERIOD. HE HAS HITS, facts not opinion, BUT HE DOES NOT MOVE ME. HE DOES NOT GET ME TO LISTEN TO HIS ALBUMS IN ITS ENTIRETY. SO NASFOREVER WIPE HIS JIZZ OFF YA MOUF AND go sit down somewhere. SHORTY.
toodlez.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Ashbunnie,
You have to grow up and think consciously with the comments. We are in 2009. Your justification of why Nas is wack is just a summary of Jay-Z’s attack on Nas. I stress the word ATTACK!! You are not clearly providing valid facts on how Nas is wack.
Lastly, you said the hottest album Nas dropped was Illmatic and Nastradamus. You’re certainly talking very one sided and bias mindframe. If you were a real hip hop fan, you would know that Nastradamus was his worst one (even Nas fans will admit that).
The people that know me on this blog know I’m the biggest Jay-Z fan but you’re talking beyond reckless. I’m not trying to put you down but you can’t talk reckless. Nas & Jay-Z are lyrical Titans in their own right. Respect it and try not to disrespect it.
-BBW
(The Jay-Z fan who has a strong appreciation for Nas)
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
But me saying he’s wack is my opinion, no?
He does not move me, jay does.
hence the prefix IMO.
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Wow. I think this is a debate good but it should not be a chin checkin session. NasForever no bueno man. Take a breathe and relax…
The focus was about whether Jay’s DOA attempt was him being a grumpy old man or CHIN CHECKIN the youngsters….
What are your thoughts about that?
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Go BBW!!! bring it back…we need to wooosaaa yall..4 real…my damn inbox is blowing up!!! lolllll
excellent post..good points..catching up now..3 WAYYYYSSSSSSS!!!!!!
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
just trying to keep it in between the white lines.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Honestly,
Anyone who says Nasis whack, I question your hip hop acumen
For you haters:
Illmatic – Classic
It was written – Classic
I AM – The equivalent of his vol 1 / vol 3
Nastradamus – next question, lol
Stillmatic – THe rebirth (which came out in 2002 btw for all you “he hasnt had hot shyt since the 90s” haters)
Lost Tapes – Classic (and the original “I Am”)
God Son – solid album
Streets Disciple – fail at a double lp (same as hov)
Hip Hop is Dead – was aite, wasnt really feelin it but had trax
Untitled – one of the most lyrical and poignant albums to drop which contained CONTENT and wasnt “for the club”
I fux with Hov. HARD. [||] I love most of his albums but i dont drink the Jay kool-aid
Jay has been obsessed with Esco for over 15 years! I can drop the lines he *ahem* borrowed from him
Nas made a song from the perspective of a gun, hov did it to the perspective of a diamond
“Dead Presidents”
S Dots on my feet made my cipher complete.
It is what it is.
Please if you gonna have this debate come with facts and stop acting like the haters from yesterdays post
“I Mean…. nas can rap but he cant RAP RAP”
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ildolceamore [formerly Southern Belle] Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
I wouldn’t say Nas is whack, not at all. However, I don’t think he’s in a league of his own. I wouldn’t rank Nas #1 in any category, and after Kelis he lost major points with me.
It’s one thing to be a good artist and have people play your music until the CD’s scratched (we’ve all done it), but it’s another to go out on a limb to attempt greatness. I strongly feel Nas missed the marked on making an individual name for himself.
Good artist, but just a couple tracks short of greatness like Lil’ Kim’s weave.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Hmm, I would say that he is great for several reason. His style has birthed and recognized by a lot of talented cats who are set to take the game now – Jay E, Wale, Blu, Lupe etc. He’s worked with some of the greats and has he has battled the greats and continues to stand on his own. That in itself is a testament to greatness. No one talks about Lakers vs. (whoever), but everyone talks about the classic Lakers vs. Celtics series.
Also, I think the mere fact that folks always debate on his lyrics, greatness, career, wins and overall artistry is a testament that he will be in the Hip Hop Hall of Fame. Any artist who can inspire this much passionate talk, both positive and negative is great in his own right. Not just good.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Southen,
I cant cosign. To say he hasnt made an individual name is way off base. Nas changed the hip hop game. His buzz was crazier than Jayz ever was coming into the game
before the internet too!
Nas is his own area. For that matter Jay-Z just took a genre and became the best at it. Nas is the liaison between mainstream and back pack hip hop.
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ildolceamore [formerly Southern Belle] Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Would it then be fair to say that the greatness Nas wanted to achieve for himself was taken by Jay-Z because he’s better?
You said it…
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
You should listen to “Last Real N*gga Alive” by Nas. Might clear some things up for ya.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
@ SB
That would be the case if Jay was the better lyricist.
Str8 lyrics Nas > Jay
Rapper/businessman Jay >Nas
THATS what it is
and Nas is a legend whose influenced some of the hottest rappers ever INCLUDING HOV
So whats ur measure of success?
I feel like this is a mission statement for every blog ive written in the last month
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ildolceamore [formerly Southern Belle] Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
If we’re talking about who deserves the title of “great” versus “good” between Jay-Z and Nas, I’ll confidently rock with Jay-Z.
While Ether went hard, Illmatic was a flop and Jay-Z’s Supa Ugly & added verse in Takeover were enough for him to take the chip. But that’s just me, I respect Nas for what he does and how he’s played the game, but Jay-Z achieved the greatness that Nas paved the way to.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Have to respectfully disagree. Nas had the throne for a stint and held down NYC before Jay rose up. You may not remember this because you weren’t really around just then, but those 80s babies who were listening to albums until the tapes broke know the deal.
Furthermore, Stillmatic (the diss record) was better than Super Ugly though both weren’t that inspiring. Super Ugly was trash and just went at the baby mama route, even Jay admitted that on Hot 97. Stillmatic had some heat though, ultimately Ether ripped it.
To say Jay achieved the greatness that Nas paved the way to is partially correct; however, you’re missing the fact that Nas in fact is a great MC. There is a reason Jay himself borrowed some of his steez (and lines/content) to build himself up.
Also if we all think Jay is so great, do you honestly think that he would battle someone who was beneath his stature so heavily? I didn’t see him dedicating bar upon bar to Mobb Deep or Jaz O.
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Ainz Neal Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I agree with SW on this..
“To say achieved the greatness that Nas paved the way to is partially correct; however, you’re missing the fact that Nas in fact is a great MC. There is a reason Jay himself borrowed some of his steez (and lines/content) to build himself up”
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
“Also if we all think Jay is so great, do you honestly think that he would battle someone who was beneath his stature so heavily? I didn’t see him dedicating bar upon bar to Mobb Deep or Jaz O.”
Just half…
“And all you other cats throwin shots at Jigga
You only get half a bar – f*ck y’all n*ggaz”
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
That was after he called out Nas sir. That bar was for cats like Lil Wayne thinking they were greater than Hov.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
stillmatic a flop? It dropped number one and went double plat in the same 1/4 as 9/11. Did three hundred thousand first week. His second or third best first week ever.
His greatness is in his music!
“So I dropped the Lp and yall fiends got Dealt/
I’m Jesse Jackson in the Balcony when King Got Killed”
END OF DISCUSSION. If anyone on earth can name a Jigga line with this type of depth I will believe in Jesus.
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
::Comes in late from work. Addresses “NasForever”::
Hey now. Easy there tiger. 3 things:
1. I never said Nas was not a GREAT MC. I’d be foolish to say otherwise. As its been said, I’m a Jay fan, but real recognize real.
2. Take that OD tone somewhere else. Ms. Jenkins (and other readers) don’t play that.
3. And lastly, check yourself boo. Thankfully I don’t have the energy to do it myself.
I do hope you come back again though!
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DEAD PRESIDENTS II (Title Code: 341249590)
Writers:
CARTER SHAWN C
JONES NASIR
PHILLIPS PETER O
SMITH LONNIE LISTON
WILLIS DAVID A
Performers:
JAY Z
Variations:
(none found)
Publishers/Administrators:
ILL WILL MUSIC INC
% UNIVERSAL MUSIC-Z TUNES LLC
2440 SEPULVEDA BLVD
SUITE 100
LOS ANGELES , CA, 90064
Tel. (310) 235-4700
PETE ROCK PUBLISHING
% NNC PUBLISHING
ATTN: EDWARD FERRELL II
100 PIERMONT ROAD
CLOSTER , NJ, 07624
Tel. (201) 767-6924
CALL THE PUBLISHERS!!!!
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Ainz Neal Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I just peeped the whole publisher post…smh…cut that check. lol
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NasForever Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Ashshorty
Silly Bunnie tricks are for kids!
YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS!!!!
“It Ain’t Hard to Tell” by the way
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
ok, ethug. you got it. please don’t beat me up via comments.
at the end of the day, MY OPINION is mine. asshole.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Iite, I’m all about the verbal debate but this has gone too far. Going to ask both of you to chill out and go to your respective corners. No need for the cursing. Only folks who can shout reckless comments at each other are Three Ways and that guy RCLS.
With that said, thanks for reading and come back sometime!
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While Ether went hard, Illmatic was a flop and Jay-Z’s Supa Ugly & added verse in Takeover were enough for him to take the chip.
^^^^
You just sd Illmatic was a flop. No shots SB, but we cannot continue this conversation
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Jay needs to go sit down some where and just chill…i hate the song, but i love the message.I like Jay, but being from that side of town in Queens im going to go with Nas for a long time.
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Honestly also Jay took that jab on the DOA against Jim and all the Harlem dudes Ron Browse who produced Nas Ether joint. Right about now they the ones that been using it a lot lately.
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The Jay vs Nas argument will live forever. This is like rolling up in middle of Flatbush and starting an argument over Beenie vs. Bounty.
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Ainz Neal Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
True..good point
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
B&TT…don’t start.
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Black and Trapped in Toronto Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I didn’t even say anything..YET… is vybz cartel mi like..I’ll make him bow…ooooooooooooooooooooo
but serious Bounty a win dat one…
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I think its funny this discussion went from Jay-Z getting at the Auto-Crooners to us taking a time machine back to 2001-2002 Jay-Z v Nas debate LOLOLOL !
Up & coming artist, you are a witness of how truly great you can be if you step up your craft and not shy away from a challenge…You become a debate for years (Lil Wayne take notes…this is called Longetivity & Competition)….PAZ
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Totally unrelated…where’s slim? didnt he say he’d be blogging from the beach??? lollll
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http://hhnlive.com/features/more/225
HHNLive.com: What was your reaction to the Serchlite line in Jay-Z’s “Takeover”?
MC Serch: “I never really paid that line much mind. It was a way of Jay getting underneath Nas’ skin. The truth of the matter is we don’t own Nas’ publishing, never have. We administer Nas’ publishing, but Nas owns his own publishing. So when Jay said he paid Serchlite Publishing, it’s not necessarily true. It’s just a way of getting under Nas’ skin.”
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Truth be told… Nas came out when Big and Pac were rhyming. As he says frequently, he belongs in that era and just continued his career with this battle with Jay and subsequent albums.
I’m just saying.
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http://bit.ly/GLbeq
yeah.
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lol..wow..lots of responses
I love the new autotune death of song…I love the instrumentals more than anything..thats why the song is hot..Jay z is a “song hot cause of the beat and instrumentals” guy..the lyrics just add to it ..you bob to the beat
anyhoo
this new song is a marketing gimmick..he is deflecting from all the autotune songs so people will not think its cool to listen to autotune and then go listen to jay z
I LOVE AUTOTUNE…
I also love how Jayz spinning autotune for his own profit
KUDOS
oh..did I mention how much I LOVE THE INSTRUMENTALS AND BEAT OF death of autotune???
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Looks like I missed a doozy! Damn it!
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There are three important point to come out of today’s topic
1)We need more hip hop talk on threeways
2)Jay lost.
3)Autotune is over used
4)I will never see eye to eye with True
“I love autotune”
?!?!?!?!
What part of the game is that?
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In the words of my QB brethren and fundamental overseer of all things hip hop past, present and future…
“Thanks for coming out. God bless you. Good night.”
- Russell Simmons
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Damn I’m so mad I didn’t get on this earlier!!!!! I don’t even want to comment anymore. I’ll just say this (and I apologize if I’m repeating):
I think Jay could have gone harder. I agree with Ms. Jenkins, Jay is still the ish and when we’re old we gonna be tryna tell our kids about him and Outkast and all the good ones. I think Jay is probably one of the only ones that could really just go hard and call names and put people in time out.
I love Drake and I’m a fan of Kid Cudi but only because he has great production. He sucks as a singer, and lyrically, he’s a little elementary. Day & Nite (a song most people have heard) goes hard as hell, but he had to have been high when he wrote that. LOL What on earth. I don’t think he deserves the wang hanging that he gets. Common and Ye get behind ya and next thing you know, you’re nominated for a BET award and you aint even put an album out yet.
The state of music is sad. I understand change, but let’s do better. Even hardcore gangsta rappers back in the day were really speaking to/about something. These days you have kids rapping about a life they never really had. Hip Hop started out as a way to get the party hype, so no, it wasn’t hard, but it required skill and those who appreciated it, had to understand that skill. Remember, back then hip hop was more than just the Emcee. It was a total experience from the lyrics, to the DJ, to the Grafitti, to the Breakin. What is it now? It’s unoriginal, nonsensical, and moving in circles. Even our “fun get the party started” songs out today are ignorant, misogynistic, and just plain dumb.
Ok that was longer than I wanted to be and probably makes no sense as the whole time I was trying to be brief.
Sorry!
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hey just for the record these are the ages of the todays “up and coming rappers” OJ the Juiceman -27,, Shawty Lo 33, Gucci Mane 29, Eminem is 37 and the man right now is Lil Wayne is 26 I posted this because since hip hops birth most of the popular MCs are always way past 18 or even 21-the LL ‘s and Nas’ of the world coming into the game under 21 and remaining relevant is VERY VERY rare BTW Jig is 40, now Solja boy is yuong born in 80 he’s only 19 and that my friends is the issue just why should I at 33 buy or listen to anything he makes-I dont have any of his music and when it comes on the radio it gets muted or I flip the station
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Slim Jackson Reply:
June 19th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I think we can all agree that Soulja Boy is just plain booty bunz.
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