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Looks Don’t Really Matter…
Looks aren’t everything. It’s what’s on the inside that counts.
Yeah right.
I figured I’d take it back to our relationship discussion roots. We talk a lot about relationship dynamics, pet peeves, unfair but accepted Double Standards, sexy time, and whatever else. But let’s talk about the beginning of the process. Let’s talk about the initial interest phase.
Now I’ll acknowledge that with initial interest there needs to be some type of physical attraction. It’s very rare that you’ll hear someone say “That dude/chick over there is kinda wack looking, but I just sense something about his/her personality that makes me wanna holler at ‘em.” There’s always gonna be that “Hmm. They’re kinda cute! I may just need my A game!” That’s not up for debate. This part aside, what’s going to be more important during contract negotiations once you’ve met someone and exchanged sales tactics. Do you prefer someone with an immense amount of swagger that isn’t super hot (Lil Wayne)? Or, do your prefer someone that turns on your loin mechanisms but doesn’t exactly hit the other marks? For instance, the person dresses like Carlton Banks or roles with a pretty lame crew.
I thought about this because I’ve been out and about with folks and we’ll walk past a couple. Someone, usually a female, will make the comment of “I don’t know why he with her. She must have a nice personality.” Perhaps this is just competition displaying itself in the truest form, but I also hear it from peeps who are not exactly in the market for a new significant other. What is the deal with all of this? Thoughts?
Slim “I didn’t feel like using my normal signature” Jackson
36 Responses to “Looks Don’t Really Matter…”
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Slim says:
Someone, usually a female, will make the comment of “I don’t know why he with her. She must have a nice personality.” Perhaps this is just competition displaying itself in the truest form, but I also hear it from peeps who are not exactly in the market for a new significant other. What is the deal with all of this? Thoughts?
^^^
they hatin’
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BLaCk Bruce WaYnE Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Very true G&B…very true…pure estrogen statement…
As for males, you would usually here a more congratulator response….
“Wow he bagged her!?!?…He must have some ill game!?”
Very distinct difference. Now if one catches a male responding opposite to what I have provided, he has to be charged with full violation of Man Law and should be advise by his fellow male colleagues that this kind of estorgen-like response it is not acceptable nor will it be tolerated…
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Dudes don’t ever ask “How did that ugly lookin’ boy bag that fine woman/chic/lady/etc”?
I don’t think its necessarily hate, but sometimes, its just hard to see how an ugly person and a fine person got together on face value. I would say the same about a pretty woman with a ugly dude. But good for them, either way.
For me, swagger (not Lil Wayne’s version of such) trumps looks. By trump looks, I don’t mean he can look like hell about the face, but he doesn’t need to be Boris Kodjoe either. But if dude is ass ugly, chances are he won’t get enough time to show just how swaggalicious he is…sucks for him.
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Peyso Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Whenever I see ugly dude with a bad jawn, I say that #1) she slipped up let him lay the pipe and got sprung or #2) she with him for the money
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Shelia Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
“For me, swagger (not Lil Wayne’s version of such) trumps looks.”
That sounds like Jay Z. He’s not cute at all but he has swagger.
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lol @ peyso
i totally understand this whole situation… i often wonder why some of my homegirls date certain dudes because to me, they can do so much better (looks-wise at least). but really, i think it comes down to something else that is attractive about the dude/chick… like he/she might have a nice smile, great swagger, and/or dreamy eyes etc etc. so while the face might not be on point, it must be something else that caught the eye. and of course, it could just be the reasons that peyso mentioned.
for me, i’m a sucker for great smiles. so a dude could be OK looking (in my opinion… and i qualify this becuz everyone has different tastes i.e. beauty is in the eye of the beholder), but if he has a great smile, then automatically he’s 5-10x better looking. swagger is important, too. nothing is “uglier” than an OK/not so great looking dude thats too shy and/or lacks confidence.
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I think, in general, swagger can make up for lack of “foineness” easier than good looks can make up for lack of swagger. I can’t really answer with those extremes (Lil’ Wayne, really?!!), but if I see a guy and I’m like, “Eh, he’s aiight. Kinda cute” but then he has that swagger, he increases tenfold. Now on the other hand, if he’s all foine and then later on turns out to love Tom Jones, it kinda ruins it. Basically, it’s like with the former, you’re working from the bottom up. With the latter, you’re hit in the face with all the goodness only to be terribly disappointed later.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Tom Jones got hits. u wildin’.
I think looks are important, as it’s the 1st attractor.. but for me, thats more-so just for fun days and sexy time tho.
If my mental and lifestyle can ever get to the point where I can honestly feel the idea of a real wifey/wife, Looks would barely make my top 5 concerns. Other things are just more important to me when it comes to that serious-minded/grown folk/long haul relation stuff. (such as chemistry, personality, motherly attributes, sanity vs. insanity, jealous tendencies etc.)
- GUNS & “it’s not unsual to be loved by anyone” BUTTER
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Cheekie Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
“Tom Jones got hits. u wildin’.”
Yeah, Tom Jones got hits, but I don’t take him seriously. lol Note, I said LOVE Tom Jones. Like, “I nearly piss myself when Tom Jones floats into my house in a dream” type love
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Southern Belle Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
That’s so true, G&B. I’ve heard from countless married couples that the superficialites of general attraction hold no weight in comparison to the other stuff a relationship entails after the test of time. And I quote one of my favorites, “Your pretty face ain’t gon’ save you when you’re maxin’ out the credit card puttin’ US in debt.”
But most people grow out of that phase…NAAT.
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For me personality always trumps looks. I usually find myself attracted to someone’s personality first and their body second. It happens all the time. I find someone who’s swag I like and then I notice their physical attributes like, oh wow, his abs are actually kinda sexy. They’re like bonuses. There are some things you can’t help but notice like you have to have all of your teeth in your head and I’d prefer your waist to be narrower than your shoulders, but past that for me it’s about swag.
Last person I was into, though he did have a nice body (score… bonus!), what I thought was sexiest about him was the way he laughed, loudly when he was truly amused. I dunno what it was about that but it did it for me.
Now about the “why is he with her” question. I’m gonna blame that on men…
I don’t think it can be completely chalked up to women hating. I know personally I’ve been traumatized by the conversations I’ve had with my male friends about what they’re looking for in a woman. I’ve listened to them make lists and talk shit about women’s bodies, clothing, etc. and make all types of judgments. I remember going to Hooters one time with two male friends and one of them was checking out one of the Black waitresses and was like “check her out” and the other’s reply was “oh I’m not feeling fat chicks today”. It was super rude and while I giggled all I could think was “I’m definitely bigger than her so if she’s fat, wtf am I?” So when I see men, especially those I know with women who by their own standards aren’t cute I question the pairing.
That being said, I’m a judger. I was raised to live up to a certain standard so I tend to judge those who don’t. Everybody is not blessed with the perfect body or great skin, so it’s not about that but I will look at you sideways for dating a women with the following going on:
* a terrible weave and or wig… WORD?!?!? I see the dandruff in her tracks, how can you over look that, that’s nasty!
* Ill fitting clothing… It’s not that her shape is terrible but when her back fat is hanging out of that halter top that clearly doesn’t fit and I can see her titty stretch marks because she decided to go w/o a bra today I have to question why you sanctioned this outfit.
* Jacked up feet… If 1/2 your polish had worn off and you haven’t had time to get a pedicure, that’s fine, but you were dead ass wrong for wearing those open toed sandals.
* Kitchen Ass Hair… Your hair looks like something a cow was munching on. You’re an adult! Go to a salon!!!Stop using that No Lye perm from CVS. If you can not afford one then maybe you shouldn’t be out eating at Cher La Mo Cash.
* Overall tackiness… 4 inch fingernails are gross. This is not Vogue magazine, wearing a gucci print shirt with a gucci belt, gucci shoes and a gucci purse is tacky! Especially when 1/2 of it is flucci. Wow exactly how much make-up do you have on… dude, shouldn’t have worn that white shirt, it’s a goner.
* a bad attitude… well I was about to actually say something nice about you but then you gave me that stink face so now I’m looking for the chink in your armor of put togetherness…
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
“Kitchen Ass Hair… Your hair looks like something a cow was munching on. You’re an adult! Go to a salon!!!Stop using that No Lye perm from CVS. If you can not afford one then maybe you shouldn’t be out eating at Cher La Mo Cash”
LMAO! You wrong for this. Oh so wrong. (I’m still laughing though.lol)
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Personality holds more weight than looks, however if I can’t look at you in an attempt to discover your personality, we have severe problems. Beyond that, if you’re physically attractive but not sexually attractive (Jaleel White), that’s even worse.
This might upset some readers, but I have an ugly people theory. If you’re pretty (for the sake of being on the same page we’ll assume the historically universal definition of beauty, that is symmetry) you can afford to be a little stank because you have your looks to carry you for a minute. But if you’re ugly (and you know it in your head but you try really hard to play it off thinking people believe you) then you better go out of your way to be nice because you can’t afford to make your appearance any worse than it already is. When I see a ‘she’s not so cute’ girl with an ‘i think my jaw is on the floor and it’s dumb obvious, help me’ guy I automatically acknowledge that she’s either a.) as sweet as his mama or b.) he has an individualistic definition of beauty. I know for a fact that she must have an amazing personality because judging by her face she can’t afford to be needy, high maintenance, extra, mean, corny, and/or a B. Both (a) and (b) are fine, I don’t have to sleep with her, that’s just where my head is at.
I also get disgruntled when I see an attractive man with an attractive woman who mean mugs the hell out of anyone and everyone because her face is just like that, like she can’t wear a smile because every second of her life is a couture photo shoot for Vogue. Really? When I see guys with this behavior characteristic at the bar, I won’t front like it isn’t a little sexy, but if I had to deal with your ass acting like you’re on the runway when we’re trying to walk in the park–I’m going to have to trip you because that’s wack. If you’re feeling yourself too much then it’s clear you don’t pride yourself on your personality and I’ll do us a favor and leave you for the birds. You have to have a personality to go with the looks. I don’t shop at Tori Burch because I like the presentation of their packaging, although the shopping bag is cute to carry around the mall until I leave; I want what’s inside the delicate image of the brand, I want what I was looking for, what I picked, and what I’m going to sport for a long time.
Balance is where it’s at.
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Peyso Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Finally something that we can agree on
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Vanessa aka Miss V Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
LoL yes, this is so true.
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I prefer a man somewhere in the middle. I prefer swag, not that thuggish ignant Lil Wayne swag… but that strong educated Mandingo warrior spirit.
I’m not attracted to men that are too attractive, like Shemar Moore and Rick Fox…. but I need him to be able to hold his own.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
“I prefer a man somewhere in the middle.”
I think all non-prude/non-celibate hetero women prefer that.lol.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
November 11th, 2008 at 10:29 am
I am celibate but I still have fantasies.
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Yeah Whatev Reply:
November 11th, 2008 at 11:26 am
“I prefer swag, not that thuggish ignant Lil Wayne swag… but that strong educated Mandingo warrior spirit.”
I totally agree.
Like that Barack Obama-type swag. That presidential, extremely ambitious, tremendous pressure-withstanding, dream-making, hope-carrying, nation-leading, history-making type swag. However, Barack’s and Dr. King’s type of swag has a definition and category all its own. It’s not your every day garden-variety type of swag. A man has to be ordained from birth with this type of swag. For the average woman, finding a man with that type of swag is like finding a golden needle in a haystack the size of Mt. Everest. LOL. Not every woman can even handle that type of swag. It takes a very special, extremely strong type of woman. Michelle Obama and Coretta Scott King just happened to strike the man arena like winning the billion dollar lottery.
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The New and Improved RightCoastLexSteele, The Devil's Advocate Reply:
November 11th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
That being said, MLK had more hos stashed than a fat kid got snacks. Watch out for that larger than life swagger.
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
November 11th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
This is the safest and most relevant answer. So I co-sign with Nicki.
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I swear the only reason I am on this wonderful blog is to be the voice of opposition
I am DEF more into looks than personality. I don’t need Boris Kudjoe (someone who is universally handsome) but I need a man who is fine to me because I know with anything less I may be tempted to stray…
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Slim Jackson Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I was gonna say you’re awful, but a lot of dudes (not all) think like that all the time. So with that being the case, I guess I see your point. Nobody wants to stay with a person who started out average and turned into a slop monster.
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InsomnaPoet Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Slim, I am glad you thought about the double standard before calling me awful…
But seriously, I am just honest. No point in trying to appear better than I am. and LOL @ slop monster!
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I guess there is a flip side to this perspective…
Because I get SICK and TIRED of being judged as “high maintenance” “superficial” or “gold-digger” because I am attractive – never ONCE asking a man for anything, never once wanting anything of him but love and respect… I would much rather have someone like my inner beauty FIRST instead of looks… I have gone through and learned SO much in my life, and have worked hard to cultivate the person I am on the inside.
Everytime I hear a guy say, “You look like one of ‘those’ girls who….” I just and wanna bang my head on a wall!
Another thing is I honestly think less attractive women get a much better deal and a more fair chance in relationships – because when they find someone for a serious relationship, they do find someone who truly is looking for the heart… and there is not the “male insecurity” factor to deal with all the frickin time. They can actually rest assured someone is there for WHO they are… I can’t tell you how often I have had my heart broken over a man’s insecurity – I’m all in love then… BAM! It’s literally like they just wake up one day month’s into being with you and decide an attractive woman is too much for them their ego to handle. And in relationships everything always comes back to looks… Can’t do or say ANYTHING without it always being attached to “looks”.
I really think it’s unfortunate that evolution is set up the way it is… But, oh well.
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So I had to post this, because it fits and it’s funny. It was posted on Craigslist about a year ago (don’t get mad at me Three Ways Crew, I’ll never do this again, I promise!)
Actual Craigslist Personal Ad:
Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.
Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a business man who makes average around 200-250. But that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000 won’t get me to central park west. I know a woman in my yoga class who was marriedto an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?
Here are my questions specifically:
- Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars, restaurants, gyms
-What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won’t hurt my feelings
-Is there an age range I should be targeting (I’m 25)?
- Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the upper east side so plain? I’ve seen really ‘plain jane’ boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I’ve seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the east village. What’s the story there?
- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows – lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?
- How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY
Please hold your insults – I’m putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I’m being up front about it. I wouldn’t be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn’t able to match them – in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.
___
The Answer:
Dear Pers-431649184:
I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament. Firstly, I’m not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said here’s how I see it.
Your offer, from the prospective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here’s why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here’s the rub, your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity…in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won’t be getting any more beautiful!
So, in economic terms you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain, you’re 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35 stick a fork in you!
So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold…hence the rub…marriage. It doesn’t make good business sense to “buy you” (which is what you’re asking) so I’d rather lease. In case you think I’m being cruel, I would say the following. If my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It’s as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.
Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So, I wonder why a girl as “articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful” as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe that if you are as gorgeous as you say you are that the $500K hasn’t found you, if not only for a tryout.
By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn’t need to have this difficult conversation.
With all that said, I must say you’re going about it the right way!
Classic “pump and dump.” I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know.
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Vanessa aka Miss V Reply:
November 10th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
yes, saw this a while back…. toooo funny!
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Yeah Whatev Reply:
November 11th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Wow he really put missy “I’m spectacularly beautiful” into her place. Thank God for good sense!
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
November 11th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Hahaha great answer to her ‘proposal’!
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Something about the guy has to be attractive–his eyes, his smile, his body…something that grabs my attention. Now once he has my attention, his conversation etc.
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I’ve said this before on another blog but it’s chemistry. Chemistry draws me to a person. Generally though I believe you have to have some level of physical attraction if you’re going to be in a sexual relationship. Personality does however greatly impact how attracted someone is perceived. And like many others pointed out, if he looks great but has a wack personality then it’s pretty much over.
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Swag + decent looks is a lethal combination. You can’t be booger wolf ugly and think swag will carry the day, but you don’t have to be Boris fine either.
Also, the swag needs to authentic. Something on the inside of you should manifest itself on the outside. Don’t be overly confident when you are just run of the mill.
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Is it just me, or has Swagger really taken off over the last couple years now that rappers been throwin it around?
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I think swagger has always been recognized but more recently it has been identified and a term coined. Seriously ask any woman that was around in the 60′s black, white or otherwise, and if they had a TV, they all wanted to sleep with JFK. Cuz that skinny irishman had swagger.
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InsomniaPoet Reply:
November 11th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
JFK was fine too!
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