Moving Up or Just Moving Out?
If you’ve been following me on Twitter, you may know that I was out in San Francisco for a few days. I voyaged out to see the West Coast, check out the sights and just enjoy the atmosphere. I could go on and on about how beautiful that city is, how much there is to do for whatever you’re into and how the weather was some of the best I’ve ever experienced in a major metropolitan city, but I’ll save that for another time. There were a lot of tales that came out of that mini-vacation. One of them is a discussion that I had with a fellow New Yorker who lived there for 10 years. We talked about a lot, but the topic that stuck in my mind was the conversation we had about the Bay Area and diversity.
New Yorkers tend to have a skewed perspective when it comes to diversity. We’ve been honored to be around a good mix of people at any time. I’m not going to bore you with the details. If you know a New Yorker that doesn’t live there currently, I’ve bet they’ve told you about their frustration about not getting [insert ethnic food] whenever they want anymore. Or going to [insert ethnic establishment] for the hook up. I know I’ve said it more times than I can count, no point in making your eyes bleed.
After awhile you come to grips that a lot of cities aren’t like that and San Fran is one of them. While it can be somewhat diverse, it’s not what I’m used to. The younger areas have a good mix, but the parts with a higher income and the more destitute areas are respectively racially homogeneous.
When I talked with said young lady about this, I asked her where a brother could live to get a touch of that diversity. Without hesitation she said, “Here in Oakland.” Well I was in West Oakland when I met her and had this conversation. Even though Oakland did visually live up to its infamous rep as soon as we crossed the bridge, I did my best to give it the benefit of the doubt. As I do with every area. After all, my home isn’t a tourist attraction either. But when I saw two strung out crackheads ominously pushing shopping carts down a main street, I was knew what was good. I wasn’t trying to move into any place like that. It’s one thing to grow up around it, another to make a conscious decision to move into it. But she let me know that I sort of had a choice – I could deal with the lack of Black faces in San Fran and not have to deal with that aspect or deal with that element and be around more Black folk.
An interesting proposition that stuck in my mind for the rest of my trip and honestly, upon my return to the East Coast as well. Especially since where Slim and I live now has a good mix of people and I don’t see crackheads roaming my block. And honestly, I’m not sure if I could live around only Black folk. I didn’t grow up with just Black folk around me all the time as I stated earlier and I’d like to keep that diverse trend. But who knows if I’ll be so lucky to find this situation once again.
So when I move out of this little oasis to whatever city is next, I know I’ll be faced with a decision if I can’t find a similar neighborhood – be with my people, or preferably a nice mix, and perhaps deal with some stuff I don’t feel like I should have to or be in a “nicer” area where I may be one of the few Black/Brown faces I see. I’m still debating in my mind, but I know what my gut is saying. So, what are you going to tell your realtor?
Seattle – Still Won’t Be Able to Get a Cab To Go Wherever Home Is – Washington
48 Responses to “Moving Up or Just Moving Out?”
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I’ve never lived in a really diverse area, they’ve been populated by mostly 2520. At the house my parents currently live in (which we moved into in early high school years), the neighborhood has gone to mostly black.
I would like to live in a racially diverse neighborhood but the only ones I’ve seen have not been the nicest neighborhoods.
I’d tell the realtor upper to middle class, where the lawns are green.
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This is a touchy subject. Too many people read “I want to live in a diverse area” as saying you don’t wanna be around black folks cause they’re bad people.
–And for the record, there are (too) many people who say the aforementioned and mean the latter –
But the fact of the matter is, I like living around a lot of different people. I’ve always been surrounded by people not like me at all (read: rich, white and male… but that’s another conversation) and I feel that finding my own person in the midst of that made me a better person. It’s also made me appreciate being not quite so rich, black and female.
If I had kids, I’d want them to be comfortable around all types of people. I have too many friends who are my age and earlier (so early to mid-20s) who are not comfortable around non-black people. They freak out, and freeze up — and these are people in corporate America, I’m talking about. Diversity, TRUE diversity, is going to become important in our country’s efforts to work through our fear of racism and dealing with it. I also want my kids to be around black folks. I’m consistently disturbed by black people who don’t know they’re black.
The other issue your post presents is why’s it always gotta come down to living amongst your people and dealing with bullsh*t vs. living amongst everyone else and having no one who looks like you. We need to do better with all that.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 11:30 am
You’re definitely right about that. Folks do mistake diversity for just not living around Black folks. While my neighborhood was and still is comprised mostly of West Indians & Blacks, you’d definitely still see Middle Eastern folks, Asians, Latinos and White people strolling around. And that’s what I like to see. Too much of one thing can be too homogeneous for me.
I also agree with ya, it’s a balance of giving your kids a different cultural perspective and yet still reminding them that they’re still Black.
And trust, I was struggling with the same proposal. Especially when they are plenty of wealthy neighborhoods that are comprised of Black folk. But from what I’ve seen they’re mostly in the South or just pockets in the North, like Jamaica Estates in NYC.
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NYC is a blessing. Trolling over the internet I meet the most ignorant people in the world. Some dude from San Diego was trying to school ME on haitians, beside the fact that he never met one in SD. However, he felt the fact that haitians don’t move to SD said something about us.
**insert face palm**
I was in ATL last month for my baby cousin’s graduation, I loved it. The black energy felt great. People, esp the girl, were so freindly. Despite my inability to understand their accents, it was nice to in a place where I didn’t have to watch my step. Off jump, I knew the cultural norm. I loved it, and as someone who never went to a HBCU, it was nice FOR A WKND.
But I had to wake up. I don’t think I would have grown as a person if I just stayed around my own. There is more out there. And to be honest, the others have more than us. So I learn how to golf, and pay attention to the Hockey scores on SportsCenter to make sure I fit in. I enjoy my 2520s, b/c after THEY get past my skintone they are actually better bosses than we tend to be.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 11:12 am
That’s the exact reason why I didn’t go to an HBCU when the opportunity was presented – it didn’t feel realistic. Why I’d like to go to a Howard or a Morehouse, it didn’t feel like the real world. Which is also the same reason I want my kids to grow up around more than just Black folk.
Like A Smith said, we need to know how to interact with more than just their own kind. Not to mention there’s experiences that every culture can bring.
Please keep in mind, I’m not just talking about living in the ‘burbs with a whole bunch of White people.
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Good topic. I definitely have been thinking about this lately, but I think if it comes down to it I would rather live around black people. My aunt lives in a really nice black neighborhood in Bowie, MD. I’m thinking about settling in that area or somewhere similar after my 2 yr contract with my job is up b/c I am ready to leave NYC. I don’t think living around black people is a bad thing, if you find the right neighborhood. It feels good to look around your neighborhood and see black professionals. To me it’s motivating and just by being in the legal profession, there is no way that I could only be surrounded by black people in any other situation, so I don’t feel as if I would be limited in any way. Also, if I have children, I would like them to grow up seeing positive black people in their neighborhood.
I don’t need to live in a multicultural neighborhood, I have nothing against it, but I have actually experienced more prejudice and racism when I have lived in multicultural neighborhoods from non white people. So I am straight on that. Racism and prejudice is everywhere, but I prefer to deal with it less in the neighborhood where I live. I can deal with that at work and in other places, not at home.
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I grew up in VA around mostly blacks (I’ll say 80%), went to a HBCU, and now I live around mostly whites, but a sprinkle of everyone else and I’m cool with it. I’m not really awkward around anyone, despite my limited view in my formative years. If I move again, I’d like to lived in a diverse area…I think, LOL. I do enjoy being around black people though. I already don’t work with any many, so why not?
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I’d rather be the lone chocolate chip in the sugar cookie, than live somewhere I feel unsafe or uncomfortable. While I think white folks in the ‘burbs get a little OCD about that neighborhood association ish (really? y’all sent me a letter cuz the grass is 1/4 inch too high?), it’s a worthwhile tradeoff. At different points in my life I’ve hung out with mostly whites, a diverse crowd, and mostly blacks, and I can tell you that the first 2 situations were much easier. I’ll get my black people fix from going to church, or hanging out with my sorors & frat (shout out to the Blue & White fam!)
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Growing up in an all black hood area, I can say that I would love to be able to live in a “diverse” area. When I went away to college, I felt like there was so much I missed out on by only going to school with other po black kids. The problem: once your income bracket goes up, your tastes change. What I want in a residential area is not likely to come with mixes of people living in harmony. That’s how cities were designed, that’s how the suburbs developed. Some people in and some people out.
Plus I need a Caribbean store close by.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 11:38 am
I need a place where I can easily get to a restaurant that serves a nice seared Ahi Tuna Burger, but that’s not too far away from a spot that has Stewed Chicken over rice & peas.
Is that too much?
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
I think that is a reasonable request, Sir Washington.
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Peysonic Lodge #69 Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
What would you do if I said I know of a place that sells them both?
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
I’d find an apartment on that block and post up.
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I really prefer diversity altho some mofos are nosy as he11, you have the built in neighborhood watch going on, which can be good and bad…..
I moved from a diverse area to a blacker area if you will but I don’t mind living in the hood amongst folk who want things out of life, work hard, and are about something..never been hood shy at all, but am still capable of blending just about anywhere.
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i grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood. my high school was about 95% black. i went to an hbcu for undergrad and i attend an hbcu now. i live down the street from my school which means i don’t know any white people who live within 5 blocks from me. lol.
once i get established in my career, i don’t know if i’ll want to live among only black people and i know i definitely won’t be working with mostly black people. i’ll probably be the minority (if not one of few black people)
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I feel really fortunate that my little city has a lot of options in this sense, he1l just in my neighborhood you can find a few different racial and economic configurations. I’ve always lived in a diverse areas, save for two years in a suburb just outside the city. It was weird to always be checking for the brown people, I wouldn’t really want to repeat that. But I don’t want to segregated the other way either.
Right now I like living with the Vietnamese people on one side, the 2520′s on the other and various browns throughout. I even picked out the section of the neighbood I’m moving when I make, just as long as there’s a Dominican hairdresser close by, I’m good.
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Living in Brooklyn you literally can walk through Russia, Italy, India, Korea, the West Indies and Israel all in the space of a few hours. The neighborhood I live in now has a mixture of Italians, Blacks and Jews – and I love it. The Italians are always trying to holla and the Jews, well their just in their own world. Some of the best parties I’ve gone to were with the Russian and Italian kids in Bay Ridge.
I don’t need a realtor, because I’m not going anywhere.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
And that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Not trying to give that up!
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I’d say safety first.
Safety, to me, doesn’t mean “white”; it means being able to feel comfortable and not fearful of living in and around my home. Wherever that is.
What I would tell my realtor: I’d like to live in a safe, quiet, established neighborhood. Preferably in a cul de sac. (I’m no help today, I guess…
)
Unfortunately, in some of our larger cities there isn’t as much true ethnic integration/diversity as one would imagine, so you’ll have to drive to what you want to see and do to get the diversity you desire. That shouldn’t be a problem, right?
Where I live, the most ethnically and culturally diverse area of the city is also one of the oldest and poorest and, therefore, more crime-ridden. I wouldn’t want to live there, but I love to visit the events and eat at the restaurants there and then politely drive myself back to my safe, Black, White, and Latino neighborhood.
Keep looking, Mr. Washington. Maybe you’ll find something more to your liking.
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Realtor- The Negro Free area of town please…thanks.
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Ash Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Hahaha!! This made me lol for real…
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Don’t judge me, but this might be a silly question.
What is a 2520????
I tried looking it up before I decided to ask.
Humbly yours,
Terry *the only combination I know is 5411* Lang
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
I was puzzled once before my dear friend terry.
2520 is a white person. 25 represents the letter y and 20 represents t coining the term YT.
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Terry Lang Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Oooohhhh.
Thanks Ash.
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I grew up in Brooklyn which in my opinion is very diverse when you look at it on an aggregate but when you take into consideration that most people dont leave their neighborhoods, it doesnt create diversity. Unless you live in Park Slope, Ft. Greene, Clinton Hill or now Bed Stuy *cringe*.
I now live in Harlem, which is dumb diverse. Where else will you see the bougie black chick, the naive white man, the super hero white girl, the down earth black dude (that’s me!! lol) and the crackhead trying to sell you food stamps all in the same corner store?
If you want diversity, I recommend visiting Queens, NY. By far the most diverse place that I have ever been. But tis diverse in a different way. It isnt diverse in that there is a representation of different cultures and backgrounds. It diverse because all the ppl, regardless of ethnicity, dress and talk exactly alike. Black kids, asian kids, indian kids, all of them, rocking jordans and everything
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
And now you understand why I need diversity. I was probably one of those Black kids you saw hanging out with in that Benetton crowd. Queens is one of the most diverse counties in the world. And that’s not opinion, it’s a stat.
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Being from Queens, I give this an ultimate co-sign. It did however hurt my heart to watch main street (once was flushing’s equivalent to jamaica avenue) turn into chinatown. There are signs in foot locker that are in chinese.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
No shots at the Q-Boro!!
Queens has trees and driveways my G. Thats all you need to know.
You goto Queens Village and thats Haiti
You goto Hollis and thats TNT/JA
You goto Hillside and its Guyana
U got Main St and its ASIA
We doin it big in the Boro most thoro!
**off my QB soapbox**
lol
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Peysonic Lodge #69 Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
The thing that I dont like about Queens is that there are people who actually never leave Queens. They go to Townsend Harris, then Queens College and then become a chemist for Con Ed. Stuck in Queens their whole life. And there are parts of Queens, that are too way out in the boonies. That’s why Brooklyn is better
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
I’ll definitely agree with that. I know folks who have gone through the Queens/L I ranks just to stay exactly in the same area. However, I cannot at any point concede that BK is better.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Peyso
u need a lot more people. U ever heard of Coney Island? Sheepshead Bay? thats not the boonies?
Also, what about ppl who goto Midwood/Bishop Loughlin then go away to college to end up BACK in BK. that ish is all subjective.
Im a proud Q-Boro rep whose a travelled cat, no local ish on mine. Went to school in queens and LI. Know BK ppl who went to school in NY. KNow BX ppl who went to school in NY. See a pattern? Same difference
When BK can have more than one tree that grown in it, then holla at me.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
LMAO.
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Peysonic Lodge #69 Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
The people who dont leave BK or BX, are considered losers lol In Queens, that sh*t is poppin. Coney Island has a train and Sheepshead Bay just doesnt count. You’ve met people from Coney Island and Sheepshead though. There are parts of Queens, (Northeast, and the part near Manhasset) where the average person from Queens cant even say that they know or have met someone from those Neighborhoods
Queens is like the nexus of the universe, I was some how on 131st street between 131st road and 131st avenue, mind you this was shortly after i passed 131st lane and 131st terrace.
Also, there are places in Queens where you will never meet a person who raise there
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Nigga what person from sheepshead bay do u know?
Brooklyn is the claimingist boro in LIFE! Of course you’ll know someone from certain BLACK areas because of close proximity.
Queens is a big area, and Manhasset is in LI so you officially been discredited.
People from Queens actually dont leave because our neighborhoods are NICE and SAFE. Even the thugs in our hoods, the triads on Main St, and the Shottas in Hollis keep our Streetz clean!
You still require an affluent amount of human beings lol
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Peysonic Lodge #69 Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
#1) I know madd ppl from Sheepshead Bay
#2) I know Manhasset is in L.I., but its madd close to Queens. The transition from Queens to Brooklyn is seamless.
#3) Queens is not safe. Queens is in fact a congregate of fraudulent mofos. Thugs whose parents own their homes, that sh*t dont even make sense to me.
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I will concur with this. Queens is NICE and SAFE and the air is just fresher than any other borough.
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Terry Lang Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
I’m with Peyso. Mill Basin, Brooklyn rocks. You can smell the ocean on cool summer nights.
Not for nothing but at 23 I saw my first AND ONLY dead body and it was somewhere on Jamiaca Ave in Queens.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
OK,
I did the 99 problems video in Marcy projects. We made sure to get out of there b4 3pm when the kids got out.
My chapter bro got his HID headlights taken off his Lexus jeep parked in BK (who still does this)
The Dollar Vans on Flatbush Ave drive like its Grand Theft Auto 4 Liberty City not NYC
Queens safety like BK is subjective. Jamaica ave isnt as real as it used to be. Ditto for Surise theater in Rosedale
you need more ppl with the Bay still, lol.
LOL @ thugs whose parents own homes. A lot of troubled youth come from good homes dont sleep
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
I remember when they first put the metal detectors in Sunrise Cinemas. I also remember how the block was bugging when LL shot his video out front.
Ahh, the good ol’ days.
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Peysonic Lodge #69 Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
I aint sayin that BK is safe, cuz trust there are places in BK (i.e. Brownsville and parts of Flatbush) where I dont go unless i have the roscoe with me. Also, I do understand that thugs can come from every where but I have to ask the thugs from the suburbs the same question that they asked the Madd Rapper “Why you so madd?” You mad you had to mow the lawn?
On the low though, I was pumped when LL did that video and Sunrise too, that was my spot back when they used to have the Ponderosa right across the street and the Caldor down the block.
As for more people from Sheepshead Bay, Larry David, co creator of Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm, (really are two fine examples of quality American television) is from Sheepshead Bay.
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Streetz: The Light Skinned Jesus Shuttlesworth Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Peyso,
ur an ass. I cosign on Ponderosa and raise you “CinaBon’ in Green Acres.
**swoon**
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I would tell th realtor I would prefer a neighborhood where everyone competes for the prize of best landscaping, there is not a shred of trash on the street, not drop of oil on the driveways, basically a movie like the neighborhood except culturally diverse.
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RightCoastLexSteele, MonBijou's Finest Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
That would be the negro free area of town
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i just look for somewhere I can afford the rent
im not at the “choose where you live” status yet
good luck
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Good topic. When I was like 17-18, my goal was to move to another state and get money and live comfortably in my $525 a month 2-bedroom apartment. When I visited my propestice place of residence, I almsot cried. Public transportation ends at 9 pm? No liquor on Sunday? No chinese restaurant that puts bbq sauce on your fries? I’m good. I don’t think I’ll live anywhere other than NYC. There’s something about being able to get a belt, clean white tee, a mixtape and 3 dollar bacon cheeseburger at 3 in the morning that entices me. NYC is diverse enough for me to feel comfortable around my “people” and learn how to speak arabic from wallah in the store.
So I will tell my realtor that I want a modest starter home in a place like Jamaica/St. Albans, Queens close to a great school (for my lil nugget and future chicken tenders), along with accessibility to a 24 hour store and all major highways.
Not to much to ask?
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ashbunnie Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
*prospective place of residence.
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Where I’m from is a caribbean explosion. I went to a PWI and currently still live in the same hood. I have no problem living in a more diverse spot.
Dont compromise safety/standards for living for the sake of bein around negroes. make that decision irrespective of race fam.
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TRUE Reply:
June 9th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
umm spit happens in the suburbs too..sometimes more than it does in the “hood”
the hood just has ghettoness..but there are people in the hood that live and breath and feed their kids and have jobs
*not directed at you*
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