Slim Shares v1.0
I received a message from Fly Funky Diva the other day asking me to check out an article on the popular Clutch Magazine website and what my opinion on the topic was. The writer was detailing her experience with interracial dating and how she’d been adverse to it initially, but eventually crossed over to the vanilla world and now has a great relationship. Overall, the post was a great read and there were a few things within it that immediately got me thinking. I left a comment there saying that I’d respond to the post/article, so I figured I’d take today to share my thoughts. I’m going to pull a few quotes from her article and address them from my perspective. Simple enough right? So let’s dance…
I saw my beautiful Black family fall victim to a drawn out divorce as a kid, and became vigilant to one day have a resilient and unfaltering Black family of my own. As I got older, I clung to this even more, realizing white boys served only two functions in life, face and cake.
I laughed at the last part. That aside, I’m a firm believer that people are a product of their environment and that apples don’t fall far from the tree. What we see and hear growing up has a major impact on our world views, motivations, and life goals. Being from a broken home, witnessing domestic abuse, or just general dysfunction in one’s family can make them lose faith in the value of having a close knit relationship with parents, siblings, and even those outside of the immediate circle. On the flip side, it can motivate that person to be a helluva lot better than those who raised them even though they’ll never be able to escape the influence.
What I find somewhat ironic about the Clutch writer’s perspective is that her experience growing up gave her temporary tunnel vision, which ultimately reduced her opportunity to find true happiness even though she thought she was doing the right thing. In terms of my own life, I didn’t have to see my parents split. I don’t think that makes me any more fortunate. I just think it shaped me differently. And in the process of trying to avoid the negative influences of my childhood, I’ve ultimately created more stress for myself and resorted to some of the same bad habits. It wasn’t until a death hit that I realized how similar I am to the man that raised me.
My narrow view of white men limited them to a good time and nothing more, certainly nothing worth taking seriously. I knew it was a strong brotha who would be the missing half, that would make us together a whole.
A lot of Black men think the same way about White women. We all know the jokes and stereotypes of the submissive “white girls” and the Black woman’s frequent disgust for the “weak brothas” who opt to “take the easy way out” by dating anything other than Black or Latina. I think where a lot gets lost in translation revolves around what exactly “strong” means. A Strong Black Woman and Strong Black Man conjure different thoughts in our minds depending on who you ask. Take this “strong” adjective and apply it to other races and the meaning changes even more. As a matter a fact, why do Black folks need to put the word “strong” before gender? No other race does that. Ehh, that’s a whole different topic in itself.
Yet, as I began to seriously consider leaving the playing field to settle down with my brown sugar boo, I found it was the brothers who were missing something. For every woman it’s different — the one component we are not willing to compromise on, a fatal flaw if you will. For some it’s a job, a self-esteem, a degree, but for me it was simple willingness to want to settle down, to commit.
I’m willing to admit, maybe it was me. Perhaps a fearless ambitious woman who knows what she wants, including a family, was too much for the new millennium Black man to handle.
A couple weeks ago (maybe less), one of our readers alluded to looking for her husband and settling down over the next 1-2 years. My first question was “How do you plan to accomplish that?” I’m not sure what the fascination is with women trying to get men to commit when they are so selective in choosing who they want in the first place. If I find the car of my dreams, it’s surely going to come at a high price and there will be other people in the market for the same vehicle. I’d argue that once you find what you’re looking for, that you actually tip the balance of the scale out of your favor whether you know it or not.
Fearless, ambitious, and strong are descriptive words that can manifest themselves in a variety of unattractive and attractive ways. You try to put someone into a timeline of your life and there’s a good chance they may not want to be the ticky line where you placed them. Things just need to happen. I don’t think this lack of commitment is limited to Black men, which the writer eventually noted. I think the Millennial generation overall is just a lot more self-interested than previous generations.
Yet, the cadre of brothers, who back then didn’t want me, now had a lot to say. Most of it to the tune of, “how come you and I never worked out?” Meanwhile a good portion of my girlfriends (while also taking a left down hater avenue) had questions like, “whats it like with a white dude?“, “I’ve never seen you so happy, what has this guy done to you?”, and my personal favorite, “he’s cute, does he have any friends?“
This threw me for a loop. I’ve heard very few stories and had very few conversations with Black men saying something like this. In my experience, it’s always been the other way around. I remember when I was in college and just an under the radar dude…until I colored outside the lines. Then all of a sudden the Black women came out the wood-works and the criticism began. Men understood my thought process. It had nothing to do with being a “weak” or “lame” brotha. I just wanted to be happy. Nobody seemed to have an interest in that until someone who didn’t look like them succeeded for a few months. People do the darnedest things.
So these are just a few of the highlights from the article and my thoughts on some of the parts that jumped out at me. If you haven’t taken a look, I suggest you give it a read. For those that made it through this post, what are your thoughts? We can still be sexy without talking about sex.
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I’m gonna preface this reply by stating that, at age 30, I have never been in a serious relationship.
Haven’t seent anything first-hand.
Haven’t been the good guy or bad guy.
Aight…
With that out of the way, I will say that in conversing with a few of my female friends about dating/relationships/etc… almost all of them will find at least ONE THING that disqualifies an otherwise good dude from being marriage material.
Or, if they don’t find anything, something will come along sooner or later, on some “It’s not you… It’s me” isht.
BAM!: They single once more and boohooing into my instant messenger.
…
I’m not gonna say that they should settle for an “imperfect” brotha… but damn. Be a tad lenient.
But on the flip…
DUDES. My brethren. Fellow licensed penis owners:
STOP BEING ASSHOLES TO WOMEN.
They want you to call, even if you don’t have the time.
They want you to acknowledge them.
They want you to pay them attention.
They want the compliments, no matter how corny.
So what that the jawn at work been making eyes at you in the break room.
So what that the fit sista at the gym been rocking the treadmill in front of you for 3 weeks straight, even when there are other available ones.
So what that the baddest jawn you ever seen in your entire life rolled up on you at the chill spot, and slid you her phone number/business card/email/map coordinates for a quick smash and grab.
Dudes gotta learn to say “Fuck that” and go home to the woman that loves you.
It’ll be worth it much later down the line. Ask your grandfathers.
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ladebelle Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 10:32 am
**ahem** hi there… my name’s ladebelle… **wink wink**
lol, jk… but these are all great points. i think that both men and women have some work to do before things will work out.
i don’t subscribe to this belief of “my mate will complete me”. nah… you guys will just be 2 incomplete people who’s struggles will cause the relationship to spontaneously com bust.
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Cant think of anything to rhyme with Peyso Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 10:46 am
based on the content and choice of vernacular and slang, i definitely felt like I could have written this
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ihsanamin Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
LOL Word.
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ife1love Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Amen…
Yes there are good men out there, but there are plenty of men who are just assholes.
I tell my boys all the time “a woman’s mind is not a playground and her body is not a jungle gym”.
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Thoughtful commentary. I already posted on the other block but I’d like to address some of your statements and reiterate a few of my points.
I must say that from my own experiences as a black woman who has had quite a few IR relationships and from others who have done the same, I have to agree wholeheartedly with what she says about brothers coming out of the woodworks when you are with a non black guy. What’s even worse, is many have gotten on the aggressive side (I live in Philly so things are a little different than LA).
Lol, I remember in college how the black guys would ignore me (I’m African) and pass me up for the latinas/asians who could hang, biracial girls, and redbones, respectively. Then I started dating this French international student and boooy that Frenchie was a man magnet because all of a sudden dudes took notice! The funniest/most infuriating thing was when a former crush who told me he could see himself with a girl like me “spiritually” but would never date me bc he prefers the “exotic types” was practically harassing me about my treason and how I think I’m too good for black guys. Jigga what? lol
And regarding the commitment issue? I see what you mean by putting too much pressure on a guy, but when you invest a LOT of time and and energy in a relationship, it’s not unreasonable at all to desire more than a “we’re just hangin out”. And keep in mind that timewise, we do have something to consider–the biological clock. Once a woman hits her thirties, yeah she’s going to feel the urgency to settle down if she plans on having kids. Plus, in today’s society women have an aesthetic “expiration date” too and her choices narrow the older she gets (“cougars” are the exception not the rule but a 45 y.o. dude with a woman in her thirties isn’t uncommon).
And on that note, I do think that there is a specific problem when it comes to commitment in the black community. I mean, how can you overlook the 45% of black women who have never been been married as opposed to only 23% of white women? Or the fact that 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock as opposed to 27% of white kids? I’m not saying it’s necessarily an ingrained character issue for black men, but I do think we need to call a spade a spade. I think the underlying problem goes back to the economics of supply and demand. For every 10 single black women there are 7 single black men, not counting the incarceration rates, discrepancy between bm and bw in employment and education, etc. Then add the popularity of black men and more openness when it comes to IR relationships. When you take all these factors into account, it’s like a king in a harem, lol! Why would brother x settle down with sister y when he has PUH-lenty of options? And heck, he has plenty of time too! And once he does settle down, he can choose a nice young tenderoni.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Thanks for the comment! One quick thing….
“For every 10 single black women there are 7 single black men, not counting the incarceration rates, discrepancy between bm and bw in employment and education, etc. Then add the popularity of black men and more openness when it comes to IR relationships.”
I think the 10 to 7 ratio is actually a lot lower as women become more successful/selective. For dudes that meet all the criteria, the ratio is probably more like 10 to 2. For men the ratio is pretty much the opposite, which is expected. We can be equally as selective but the pool is just larger. I guess that allows “the good ones” to really play the field cuz there are so many more candidates out there.
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Cant think of anything to rhyme with Peyso Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Me and my boys used to say the same thing in school. We felt that at my PWI if there were 100 women there would be 70 dudes. Of that 70, 20 of em are gay, another 10-15 are undateable b/c they’re socially awkward, another 20 only like white girls, so that leaves about 100 women for 20 dudes. Minus the women who dated IR or were gay or just not into datins and were at like 80 black women for 20 black men or a ratio of 4:1. If you look at our collective group number, that ratio is evident
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Sowhatiff Jenkins Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
This whole ratio thing is so frustrating from the woman’s point of view. What’s worse than guys knowing that they have more fish in their pond, is woman acting like they do, i.e. being all thirsty in their interactions with dudes, and letting them get away with murder. Wake up ladies.
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Ziggy Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I second her comment… all of it!
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Yeah Whatev Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
“I have to agree wholeheartedly with what she says about brothers coming out of the woodworks when you are with a non black guy.”
I completely agree. Whenever I hang out with two of my two guy friends in public. I get eyes from nearly every single black guy (and women too). The only ones that don’t really stare are the ones who are also hanging out with 2520s. And when I say eyes I mean the real evil eyes. I mean, dang, most of them wouldn’t mind if I was just hanging out by myself or with my girl friends. One of my really good guy friends who happens to be a 2520 southern boy just helped me through my last dating incident where a black guy totally ran game on me. Oh well, no hard feelings I’m still trying to date black men now and my friend is still there to give me advice and be a shoulder to cry on if & when I get gamed again. But you know one thing I’ve noticed any woman who is hanging out with man who seems like he is SO gets more attention from other men anyways. It must be the un-attainability factor or something.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
I think that attainability factor works a lot more in reverse….
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I’m with ihsanamin, I’ve never been in a serious relationship either… All I have are ideals of what they SHOULD entail and experiences which have allowed me to vocalize what I do not want.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with dating across racial lines. My issue is when I hear a comment, (like my friend told me WHO IS BLACK) “I am no longer dating black women, I’m only dating Spanish.” Or if I hear a black man declare, “I’m only dating 2520s.”
With that said, everyone has their preference BUT when you count out an entire race, it sounds like you are saying one is better than the other… like you’ll no longer have any problems bc you don’t date black women anymore.
Personally, I have tried dating outside my race twice. Me and the 2520 didn’t go very far at all… not even pass the talking on the phone stage. I just froze up, I wasn’t attracted.. and when I turned down a kiss from a Spanish guy, he declared that “All you American women are alike.” I’m open to trying something different but it’s gonna take someone exceedingly, abundantly above to take my attention off my brothas.
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RightCoastLexSteele, No Longer Dating Black Women Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 10:52 am
My issue is when I hear a comment, (like my friend told me WHO IS BLACK) “I am no longer dating black women, I’m only dating Spanish.” Or if I hear a black man declare, “I’m only dating 2520s.”
I’ve been saying this since 2003. And oddly enough, the more women you say it to, the more they want to prove that you shouldnt date outside the race. Just by the law of averages alone, ALL black women cant possibly be a pain in the ass, but damn, it sure seems so. Over the years I’ve started to deduce that my problems arent exactly with Black women, but with the women that I have met who are completely brainwashed by Western Civilization and “American” culture. Compound that with the fact that most women in the great state of NY are rude as hell, and you’ll definitely make a brother go bunny hopping. I can relate to Latinas because either they were born outside the US or their parents were. I cant explain white women…they’re just fun damn it! People always say you shouldnt generalize, but when the neck starts snappin and the first thing out a chick’s mouth is what she AINT about to do and what I NEED to do, flashbacks start flying and I just want to go to my happy place (or her happy place if she’d just shut the…)
All that being said, still cant date ‘em. If they are any Dominican, Cuban or South American women reading today, dont be shy, send your resume and references to lex@cocksmen.org. Viva La Raza.
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ChokLitFacory Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 11:53 am
“Over the years I’ve started to deduce that my problems arent exactly with Black women, but with the women that I have met who are completely brainwashed by Western Civilization and “American” culture.”
I can understand that comment. I feel the same way about a lot of Black men as well. But still, some Black woman somewhere must have really hurt your special feelings, because you sound like you generally just count them out all together! Oh well, your loss. You like women with culture? Lol come to Canada, buddy. Real talk.
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RightCoastLexSteele, No Longer Dating Black Women Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Real talk, I’m comin to Canada for Caribana. I’m bringing the camera crew, we’re gonna call it “Right Coast Lex Steele’s Northern Exposure.” Seattle, Slim, Peyso, BBW and MTG, link up…we’re off to Canada, eh!
Ah yes…B&TT…the “aint yo mama black” express is right on time. Yes, Mama Steele is a beautiful black woman. And that’s the problem. I know what the standard is, which makes some of this nonsense I’ve been forced to ingest just plain unacceptable. Come on man, I know the prices, you cant sell me an 1/8 for the price of an OZ. You gotta be kiddin…
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Black & Trapped in Toronto Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
OOOO lawwwd this gonna be one big party 4 u boyz come August!!!! LMAO
Get your flags out, Get ready to jump n wave, and please boys don’t forget your protection…even with all the free health care…there are lot of LADIES out there with the itchas…muahahhahahaha!!
Me? I’ll be chillin by the lake with my short shorts and soco yamin pon some oxtail……..
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ChokLitFacory Reply:
February 6th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Hahaha I hear you BT&T, Me and the ladies will be straight chillin while all the ‘tourists’ come in and lose their minds, lol.
On the real, RCLS & Seattle, ya’ll must have really met some mean ol’ Black women! Is it really that difficult to deal with us? I don’t know much about NYC women, but if a chick is snapping her neck and suckin her teeth at you, maybe you are talkin to the wrong chick, keep it movin!
Most of my girls are really cool and they will be pleasant with you as long as you aren’t tryin to grab at some cheeks (unless thats what they’re lookin for)! Maybe find a different social circle or something, damn! We ain’t all that bad!
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
“I’ve been saying this since 2003. And oddly enough, the more women you say it to, the more they want to prove that you shouldnt date outside the race”
Again, it’s all about the black women you meet. People in New York generally are rude…. just my experience and not just the women..
I’m not here to try to change your mind, I could really care less… and with that neck snapping statement, we may be better off without you.
All black women do not mouth off and all of us do not snap our necks. I actually pride myself on NOT arguing… but I digress. This is not about me.
I’m just saying, don’t generalize an entire race because of your choices. In all of my life, I haven’t dated one AWESOME black man, but I’m not about to give up on all of you yet.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
That is quite true Nicki, you can’t just the lot by the actions of a few. But I must say that when I started dating outside of my race, I lost a lot of respect for Black women.
I had a similar situation as the young lady who wrote the original article. Women who wouldn’t give me the time of day before were coming out the woodwork and giving me attitude now that I was my non-Black counterpart.
As a person who comes from a diverse family, nothing was more disheartening to see than a group of Black women hating because they could no longer date someone that they weren’t pursuing in the first place.
I haven’t written off all Black women because of those young ladies’ actions, but I haven’t met a Black woman yet who’s proven me wrong and been truly OK with a Brother dating another minority or a White woman. Aside from the women in my immediate family.
That’s a serious piece of the criteria for me. Even when it comes to friendship.
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Black & Trapped in Toronto Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Seattle & Lex you guys hurt my soul when you say you have lost respect for black women….do not forget it is through a black woman u came (i’m making an asumption correct me if i’m wrong)…if you can’t love & respect a black woman even with all her neck-snapping how the hell you expect to truly love Becky, ming-lee, or Pingala?????
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
B&TT, I love my Moms and all the women in my family. Because they are Black women and they’ve gone thru so much. But I love them even more because even though they have faced so much, they still accept any woman I’ve brought home (As long as she isn’t trifling).
As I said, I haven’t written off all Black women and I haven’t lost all respect for them either. I just get turned off when I see how callous and disrespectful they can be to another woman of color who’s dating a Black guy.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
“I just get turned off when I see how callous and disrespectful they can be to another woman of color who’s dating a Black guy.”
I can understand that BUT again, it’s bc of the reasons that you all are giving, like bc it’s a another race, she’s simply easier to deal with. Because of that reason, u are dayum STRAIGHT, I’m gonna turn my nose up at u when I see you out.. and dare u to even look at me.
Maybe you guys were choosing the wrong black women in the first place. All of us aren’t negative…
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RightCoastLexSteele, No Longer Dating Black Women Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Yes, I’ve totally realized it might be a NY thing. Cuz every time I go to ATL, those GA peaches warm a brother’s heart.
LOL…your neck was snapping as you were typing wasnt it?
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
“Yes, I’ve totally realized it might be a NY thing. Cuz every time I go to ATL, those GA peaches warm a brother’s heart.
LOL…your neck was snapping as you were typing wasnt it?”
No, I was pissed though. I took it personally.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
“…Because of that reason, u are dayum STRAIGHT, I’m gonna turn my nose up at u when I see you out.. and dare u to even look at me.”
Eh, I don’t know about that Nicki. Can’t speak for all brothers, but I didn’t write off Black women. And in all seriousness, I don’t know many that really have. RCLS included. Personally, I just found a woman who was beautiful, cool and intelligent who was interested in me. Didn’t really care what race she was. Wasn’t eliminating the sisters, just wasn’t getting the time of day from them so I started to interact with the young ladies that were.
Point blank, my records don’t sell in urban America. So like The Roots, I went on tour elsewhere!
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
“Point blank, my records don’t sell in urban America. So like The Roots, I went on tour elsewhere!”
Okay Seattle…
“Since ninjas ain’t sh!t but H%es and tricks”, maybe I need to go somewhere else too.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Now we’re on the same page. Don’t hate, participate.
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first, my apologies for being M.I.A. on your site… and now back to the regularly scheduled comment…
slim, for the most part i agree with you here. my moms and her first husband divorced and now she and my dad have split too. low and behold, i’ve been married and divorced by the time i was 25. the main thing that motivated our marriage was wanting to prove others wrong only to fall victim to manifesting the very same thing we were trying so hard to be opposite of. so i definitely agree with you on your first point.
but i think that our introduction and different chapters of our relationships determine the next chapter. not that i think that i could ever marry a white guy (no offense) but i am now interested in experiencing other races on the dating scene. and i may not even do so but the point is is that i’m open to it now. i’m open to dating musicians and artists and things like that now too. this was something that i was closed off to before. i normally dated some sports player or business buff and none of those worked out so the next chapter is something different.
i used to have problems with interracial relationships but now i don’t. life is too short to spend it trying to make society happy with your relationships. at the end of the day, you have to sleep in the bed that you make and if it’s with a white, black, indian, chinese, latino person then so be it!
and if it’s with all them, then i might be lookin at you different!
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“…white boys served only two functions in life, face and cake.”
I think I will need clarification on the use of face, due to my gutter-like mentality.
I sense a lot of bitterness from the author of the post we are discussing.
“no means am I attacking brothers. If you want to play the field until you are 40, that’s your prerogative.”
While I agree one should always keep an open-mind with regards to dating outside your race, one should also keep an open-mind when dating inside your race. I like chocolate, caramel, and maybe even pecan recans, because those are my favorite flavors-yum!. I love black men and although my past experiences would tell you different, I refuse to give up on them. Black men are the most disrespected man on earth, yet they come from the ancestry of kings. Yes it may take a lot more work to understand his struggles and in turn have him understand your struggles, but relationships take work. So although I am happy for the author, I feel she needs to relax a little bit- not all brothers are the same.
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Cheekie Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
“While I agree one should always keep an open-mind with regards to dating outside your race, one should also keep an open-mind when dating inside your race.”
Let the chuuch say amen. This statement will do a lot of ninjas good.
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I like em brown, yellow, black, white, puerto rican or hatian….. I just want a jawn that can I call my own, I want her heart to be red and the
vagstachetongue to be pink. I want a chick that practices tai-chi and still can buy weed and will give me some good head and I’ll make her a mommy. She needs to cook and cook well. I dont care what it is, it has to be good though.Reply
Count me in on the peoples that have never actually been in a serious relationship.
As for the interracial dating tip, I say to each their own. If a ninja happens to fall in love with a girl who
tans until she turns into a glass of Tangis melanin-challenged, I say more power to ya. What the world needs now is love, sweet love and all that.THAT said…
Though my brothas always say this, it ain’t always as simple as “I really love her”. Seeing more and more brothas gravitate toward 2520s made us sistas wonder. How can it be that big of a coincidence that these sports mofos married a non-Black chick as soon as they became famous? I mean, it was like they went non-black by default it was such a trend. That’s when sistas really got steaming mad.
As far as women dating 2520 men, I do question if most of it was simply a response to what their Black men were doing all along. Not saying that “somethin’ new” is really anything new, but the numbers are growing for a reason. The comfortability and growing trend with Black women dating interracially nowadays screams of “I can’t take this ish no mo” more so than this actually being their first choice.
Loyalty to your people is a beautiful thing, but how can you be loyal to something that isn’t there anymore?
But, anyhow. As for me, I’m open to the rainbow coalition. But, I follow that idea that I’ll probably actually marry a Black man. There’s just somethin’ about that swagger that a 2520 can’t touch…
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Black & Trapped in Toronto Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 11:58 am
“fall in love with a girl who tans until she turns into a glass of Tang is melanin-challenged”
muhahahaha…and HA!
Yeah Tanning is big bi’ness, lot’s of $$$$…I’m glad I got the natural glow going on
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I’m genuinely happy for Ms. Nichols, the author of the original post. While a lot of my brothers, myself included, have ventured out to date women of other races, sisters have not. And for years, I’ve told my close friends and, women who I’ve heard berating interracial couples, to stop complaining about what they’re doing and do you.
I know a lot of women are going to say that they just want a brother and that’s cool. But don’t disparage other people for their decisions and who they choose to be with. As Ms. Nichols stated, she caught a lot of heat from her girl friends after she made the decision to date a White dude.
People need to grow up and recognize that things are changing. Not because we have a Black president, though that helps, but because our reality is different.
Our newfound economic status allows us access to groups of people we never would’ve interacted with before. As my man Slim stated, and many other brothers have seen, college has many more races and ethnicities than just Black, West Indian and African.
Now that we are in places in which we’ll coexist with folks who aren’t just Black, we all need to learn to open up to them and possibly have more than just an apprehensive friendship.
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ife1love Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
I know a lot of women are going to say that they just want a brother and that’s cool. But don’t disparage other people for their decisions and who they choose to be with.
First a comment, and then a question for the group…
Comment: I feel you on this, but Black men need to stop generalizing and going on about how much “better” or “easier” it is to date a woman of another ethnicity…
If you generalize and disparage me just because your past relationships haven’t worked out then I get to question your choices.
Question… does this supportive attitude extend to dating outside one’s gender? My best friend started dating a woman about 3 years ago and the criticism just keeps coming. I think I was the only person who supported her for real when the relationship was new, and even now as they talk about marriage most people are still waiting for the other shoe to drop and her to start dating men again.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
That is true. There are brothers that have written off all Black women because of their past experiences. I’ll give you that. However, you can’t assume that all brothers have done this and as such you can’t question every man’s choices.
Every person will answer that question differently. Personally, I don’t care. Chalk it up to my family atmosphere or the fact that I work with a lot of lesbians and gays, but to each his own. And on that note, figured I’d say that Three Ways will cover this topic in depth at some point in the near future.
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RightCoastLexSteele, No Longer Dating Black Women Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I am a card carrying lesbian.
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Cheekie Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
“I am a card carrying lesbian.”
So, would that be a lick-her license?
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Black & Trapped in Toronto Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Sniggling @ lick-her license…..
Will I ever get any work done???? lol
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This needs to be a brand new shiny comment.
Okay, question for the class. And I’ve heard this asked around many o’ social circles:
What’s the deal with brothas who date any ol’ 2520 chick? Sistas are seeing a trend of Black Men with their arms around a “Becky” who ain’t even all that. Probably a 2 or 3 on that 10 scale. It kinda looks like he took that chick that wasn’t good enough for her 2520-male counterparts and wifed her up JUST because she was white. Especially if this same dude would have higher standards if ol’ girl was Black.
I see this waaay too much, so what’s goin on, Marvin?
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Slim Jackson Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
This is something that I don’t think any of the men commenting here can really speak on from personal experience…do correct me if I’m wrong fellas. However, I’ve had this conversation with many Black women and I’m also curious to wonder how you/they/yall seem to reach the conclusion that he wifed her up because of race without actually having a conversation with the dude. Chances are if he was a decent looking dude and dating a not so attractive Black or Latina chick, the sentiments would be the same…if not worse. Take away race and then wonder why he’s with a wack chick in general. At that point, it’ll probably either be “he has low self esteem” or “she must be a really nice person”.
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Cheekie Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
“However, I’ve had this conversation with many Black women and I’m also curious to wonder how you/they/yall seem to reach the conclusion that he wifed her up because of race without actually having a conversation with the dude.”
I think the whole “European standards of beauty” idea that Black women have to face in America can answer that question.
Not saying that race HAS to be the reason by default, but it’s a very good possibility. It’s not realistic to completely rule it out, either.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I co sign with Slim, but I have a follow up question:
Why is it that Black woman judge a Black man’s interracial relationship by the attractiveness of the non-Black woman he’s dating?
For example, if you see a brother walking around with a Latina that beautiful by conventional standards, he’s OK. But if he were walking around with a woman who’s a 5 on the scale, he’s bugging.
Why is that?
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ife1love Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
I have a friend who was married to a crazy Black woman and they got divorced and then after he swore off marriage, he ended up marrying this terrible looking white woman.
Now, he didn’t pick her because she was white, and he’s not known for dating funny looking chicks (I’m not just being mean, she is NOT what I would call attractive, she even has jacked up teeth). But… after his “ideal” relationship failed I think he was open to approaching things in an unconventional way. His new wifey started out as a one night stand who’s phone call he decided to return. He completely broke protocol and found himself happier for it.
I think the real lesson is people set up all sorts of rules that block their own happiness. Most dudes would not have called
coyote uglyher back. Hell… look how many times on here men have stated that they wouldn’t want to date a chick that cause them to get side looks and giggles from the peanut gallery. That is just ego and honestly it’s stupid. Black men (and people in general) have a ton of hang-ups and personal issues that keep them from happy relationships with not just Black women, but women in general.Reply
Black & Trapped in Toronto Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I think that’s shallow to do BUT I think if I were walking around with George frm Seinfeld on my arm I’d get sniggles behind and in front of my back. But they obviously don’t see the “beauty” that you see so fukk em???!!!
And another MINI theory I have. Often the appearance of a black woman in comparison to other races in the world are dramatically different (ex high booty, skin tone, hair) so it’s kinda like a slap in the face to see a brother hooking up with someone who does not look like him or “them”(the spiteful *tches)????
I mean it’s not right to be judge, hate whateva, but you gotta understand where that comes from & I’m sure you do- since slavery we have been conditioned to hate one another…the looks and hateful comments that get u heated are directly related to this!
Can’t we just all get along?
((((((Big hug for everyone))))))
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Cheekie Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
“Why is it that Black woman judge a Black man’s interracial relationship by the attractiveness of the non-Black woman he’s dating?”
Ain’t this the same theory when you see your former boo all hugged up on another person? Don’t you automatically judge their attractiveness. Okay, then this all ties to race, too. Look at how we call each other brothas and sistas, that implies that we all have a loyalty to each other…that we “belong to each other” in a sense, just based on our common melanin.
Still, though, I’m interested in what’s going through the minds of Black men who hold their female Black counterparts to a higher standard in terms of dating(gots to be light skinned, long hair, physically fit, etc) then just up and date a 2520 chick who wouldn’t be universally considered all that. Or even some of that.
Disclaimer: Attractiveness is subjective and all that Jazzy Jeff, so, I digress. Still, ain’t there people out there that are just generally accepted as attractive?
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Cant think of anything to rhyme with Peyso Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
I think there are different expectations when it comes to race and beauty. I cant elaborate on what those expectations are because I dont know them fully or understand them but an example of it is we expect black girls to have hips/and or booty. The only expectation for the 2520s is the former.
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I love the idea that a black woman can find love and happiness with a black man…But I don’t think that woman could be me. I think about it from time to time, and imagine myself taking the chance, but first and foremost, I can’t imagine a white guy wanting to approach me in that way. Not exactly sure why. Plus, I feel like I wouldn’t be able to express myself fully about certain things (i.e.racism, etc), out of a fear of being offensive and such. So yeah…I dunno. Great post(s) though.
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ChokLitFacory Reply:
February 6th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I agree. Have you seen “Something Else” with Sanaa Lathan? They touched on this subject in that movie.
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okay…. and why is this topic still around. I mean really??
I’m a firm believer that Black Women need to let those “Bruthas” go and explore that side if they like. If thats what they like thats what they like. A lot of Black men/boys would say they are doing it to get back at “the man” for taking their women during slavery. Ha, thats ridiculous because during slavery men would come back for their families if they had enough money to. Ummm so I guess ladies we still waiting for them to come back home..
Besides those guys who probably jumped into that dating pool circle are probably lames anyway. Let them have of those cornball”Bruthas”, your “prince charming” is waiting for you on the other side of the road. Why still get upset if they dont want to date us, mean they couldn’t handle the will power that some of us have. Lets face it ladies some of you guys dont have strong self esteem, so enough with that “He cant deal with a stronggggg Black woman”.
ha, thats my thoughts for the day.
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Cant think of anything to rhyme with Peyso Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Ya comment is exactly the opposite of what I believe the author was trying to do and exactly the opposite of what is good for black ppl everywhere. Just blame it on the dude being “too weak” or he cant “deal with you” or he’s a “lame”. Maybe he just likes white women? Maybe his idea of yin and yang are in fact black and white. And maybe I’m taking offense to this or something and going in too much, but I think for you to come on here and say this after all of the above positive dialogue has taken place is both counterintuitive and ignorant. I hope you have a great time on the other side of the road.
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Urban Sophistication Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
strike a nerve much…. have you fallen victim to being that “not so popular dude”… grew into those feature quite late ehh. Only black dude in your class in the 5th grade. Picked on by your peers because you didnt quite fit into the crowd, and the “others” respected your G-code. Its only natural for those who fall into those categories just stated to feel some kind of way. Maybe you took that a little personal and the ying to your yang met you on the other side of the road… so be it.
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Snowbunnylover Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Urban Sophistication, how are you gonna come out and make assumptions about people. You probably creep around town with Pakastani dudes on the low.
Power to the people!!
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ChokLitFactory Reply:
February 6th, 2009 at 11:27 am
“Why still get upset if they dont want to date us..”
I agree with this part of Urban’s comment. I mean, if these guys are saying all Black women are difficult, neck-snapping and mean and that they have ‘Lost respect for ALL Black women’ (thats a big WOW to me) and will never go back to Black women; Meh, who cares?
If you are ignorant enough to dis-include all Black women as potential boos because of a couple bad experiences with them, then why can’t we brush you off as Lames (read: someone I would not pursue)? And I mean, everyone can date whomever they want, but if you aren’t checkin for me, I definately am not checkin for you either, and thats ok.
Disclaimer: This comment is for (black) men who do not date Black women at all as a preference.
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you know what…. you never know I might have LOL
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I know I’m late, but now that I can sit down for more than five minutes, here’s my 10, 20, maybe 30 cents:
I, for one, could care less whom another Black man is dating. My only issue with IR dating stems from the close-minded reasoning of some (e.g., the “I’m done with [insert ethnicity here] women/men” type people). This type of logic will always be a problem—no matter if expressed by a man or woman. I’m not sure if everyone read the Clutch article in its entirety (beyond Slim’s excerpts), but I think the author’s main point got lost along the way, due to people’s pre-determined, clearly already strong opinions about IR dating:
“…this is an all-out attack on my sista-friends and our ridiculous refusal to look for love outside the realm of our own race. It doesn’t have to be a white guy; I am imploring you to cross the cultural barrier and date an African, a Mexican man, yes, even an Asian man!”
Did everyone miss this? The point of the post, it seemed, was to challenge Black women to open their eyes, their minds, and their hearts to all men, no matter the race. It in no way bashed Black men for dating White nor proposed the idea of dating exclusively outside of one’s race. Given the startling (yet widely known) ratios emphatically and repeatedly mentioned in the above dialogue—pointing out the disparity of
goodBlack men togreatBlack women—one would think that Black women would be more likely to date outside their race than Black men. We certainly have a more statistically-supported rationale to do so.Perhaps this isn’t possible, though, given our self-imposed limitations on our dating experiences?
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Cheekie Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I think we all just went off on a tangent and started talking about Interracial Dating/Relationships in general (which, bound to happen…it’s a sizzlin’ topic in our community), the comments here aren’t necessarily directly in response to what the author noted in her piece.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
I think it’s interesting the way today’s conversation turned into interracial dating, which really wasn’t my objective. I, similar to the Clutch Mag writer, wanted to spark thought and dialogue so I feel like I accomplished my goal. There’s a lot of stuff from today’s post that went unaddressed that I’ll probably bring up again in a future jawn. To everybody that’s a regular reader here, I urge you to have your friends and peoples check out our site so we can continue to get different perspectives when topics like this come up.
I’m going to attempt to make this into a semi-regular segment. Basically, readers can send links or articles and I’ll read ‘em and offer my honest thoughts and we can discuss. So if anybody has anything else (within reason), I’d be happy to take a look and ish.
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Aight… I got a question.
With all this tolerance and rainbow-tasting going around, is it narrow-minded of me to totally exclude White chicks off my radar?
Will I be judged for dipping into the vanilla?
(This is all jokes… kinda.)
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RightCoastLexSteele, No Longer Dating Black Women Reply:
February 5th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
You will not be judged my brother. Dip in the vanilla. Dip twice. Put sprinkles on your vanilla. Perhaps some powdered sugar…make a vanilla shake. Vanilla is good.
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Black men and women are so very damaged, especially as we relate to each other. We spew so much hatred back and forth, it seems like we are on guard when we DO date each other. We are just waiting on the other shoe to drop.
We all have our non-negotiables, but the truth of the matter is your s*&% doesn’t smell like roses. If you want someone to smell your s*&% you have to smell some of their’s too. The issue is figuring out what type of s*&% you are willing to smell.
And if EVERYBODY you date is just a complete asshole, you need to look at the common denominator.
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This part stuck with me the most throughout this whole post: What we see and hear growing up has a major impact on our world views, motivations, and life goals. Being from a broken home, witnessing domestic abuse, or just general dysfunction in one’s family can make them lose faith in the value of having a close knit relationship with parents, siblings, and even those outside of the immediate circle. On the flip side, it can motivate that person to be a helluva lot better than those who raised them even though they’ll never be able to escape the influence.
To many people’s faces, i would not admit that i am a product of a broken home & domestic abuse but for the sake of contributing to this conversation, I have. Most of my life, it ruled who i was and it brought about many fears & questions of if I’m going to fall into these categories when I meet someone that I believe to be the one. My mother did leave my father which is hard for many women in abusive relationships. Now, my dad is a different person with his girlfriend but there is always that fear that “monster” within him would come back but shows me that it is possible for a man to change his ways (this is also the case with my best friend’s father, her parents never divorced but her mother did want to leave). It is due to how my father is that i question if each man i meet has the potential to be like him. There is a great lack of trust (as far as self control and temper goes) when it comes to men but i also have a strong belief that every man isn’t like the man my father once was.
I believe that is one is motivated enough, they can rise above such an experience to attain whatever they seek to in life, be it happiness, love, success, etc. However, if you have dealt with such things in life, it does cause one to have walls up and to be more cautious which isn’t always a bad thing since everyone does not have the best of intentions.
I hope my comment made sense!
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Slim Jackson Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
It made sense. Well done.lol.
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L. Dejean Reply:
June 14th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
LOL! I’m glad it did! I hate I was all sorts of late in responding but I’m also somewhat of a newbie to this blog!
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