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The Double Standard of Men and Women Part II
Seattle’s Theory of Modern Day Chivalry
Props to Slim for calling out the elephant in the room and discussing the Double Standard of Sex with his recent post. As he mentioned, the Double Standard segment would be a three-part series so here’s another issue near and dear to me that goes under that umbrella. Chivalry. Most of us can agree it’s dead or at least in critical condition with bruised ribs, a cracked sternum and a slow heartbeat. It doesn’t look good for him. However, the reason(s) why it ended up on life support aren’t as universally agreed upon. So I took it upon myself to do a little research as well as scientific experimentation and now I’m here to debut Seattle’s Theory of Modern Day Chivalry. It states, chivalry is dead because women beat the shit out of it. The End. (Bows to an eruption of applause and snickers)
Yep, check underneath your tims, flats and/or heels ladies. It doesn’t take the squad from NY Undercover to see that you’re responsible for this murder. J.C. and Eddie could’ve solved this in the first 5 minutes. Open and shut case, cue the commercials. What’s that? You need some facts? Well it goes back to the Double Standards of Men and Women in society today. While one gender’s roles have changed exponentially, the other’s has remained the same. I’ll present my findings to the jury.
Exhibit A: Miss I-N-D-E-P-E-N-D-E-N-T
Do you know what that means? Well as my good friend Tiff brought up in a previous post, women think they can, and as I’m finding out, have to do everything for themselves. Which is great. Nothing is sexier than a woman that doesn’t need to rely on you financially. Unfortunately, as Tiff pointed out, that mentality sometimes trickles down to everything else in their lives. Here’s a small, but poignant example. One day during a class in college, all the students had to gather around our professor to watch some hands on instruction. Some stood, others sat on tables and the unlucky few had to sit on working tables high off the floor. After the brief tutorial was over, I motioned over to help one young lady down from the ledge. After all, she had heels on. Why she had heels on in upstate NY during a lab class was beyond my thinking, but chivalry doesn’t know fashion. So I extended my hand, only to get scoffed at. She sucked her teeth, rolled her eyes and hopped down herself. I’m quite happy that she knows how to jump and run in heels, but there was no reason to kick chivalry in the nuts with them as well.
Exhibit B: Got This Cake, I’m Eating It. And Watch Me.
While a woman’s role and status has changed in modern day society, for the better, a man’s has not too much. As I stated, women “got their own” ish now and I’ll repeat, that’s great. Wish you the best. I don’t want us to go back to the 1920s. Only thing I get hung up on is that the expectations are still there. You want us to treat you as equals, well then let’s do it. I’m not saying that the toilet seat remains up and you have to start peeing standing, but picking up the check every once and awhile would be cool. Some do pick up the check or go half (you know who you are, thanks for lunch), but the majority don’t even crack the wallet even if it’s as loaded, or dare I say it, more loaded than mine. You can’t fight for independence and then choose when you want to live up to it. That’s like me saying I’m a free man now, but every once in awhile I just want to crash in a White man’s house and do his yard work because I miss the feeling.
Exhibit C: Forget What I Said, This is What I Meant
Now if you don’t want it, that’s fine, I’ll give it to someone else. Chivalry that is. The question is, who? And more importantly, when? If all of you ladies don’t want the door opened for you or for us to pick up a check that’s cool. Less energy expended, more money in the pocket for an Arizona Fruit Punch and a chicken patty with cocoa bread. But you keep us guessing. We get dirty looks if we do open a door or if we decide not to this time. You may say no and scrunch your face up, ever so cutely, when we go to pick up the check, but then give us a “n*gga, did you forget your wallet?” look if we don’t. Plain and simple, you expect it, but you don’t want it. So, Seattle is here asking for you guys to have a Woman Conference. We have our Man Laws, we’re just asking for a couple guidelines to help us out. We know that there is no simple answer from a woman, so a yes or no with a few clauses will suffice. Thanks homie.
To wrap it all up for you, there are multiple Double Standards at work here. One being that a woman’s role has evolved while a man’s has remained stagnant. The second being that women yearn to be treated as equals yet still look to be a damsel all at the same time.
With all that said, I’ll let the jury decide what the verdict is, but from the materials that I’ve presented today, I don’t know what there is to refute.
Seattle aka Sexual Chocolate
27 Responses to “The Double Standard of Men and Women Part II”
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While women may have killed chivalry, the fellas definitely got a few shots in before it went down. I lack the scientific clarity of Seattle, but I think I can sum it up in one sentence: “If you dont, I’ll find someone that will.”
In most metropolitan cities, an apparently more as it refers to many readers of this blog, college campuses, there is at the very least a 5:1 ratio of women to men. So seriously ma, if you wont do it (whatever it may be) I have 4 other options, so get to stepping. Naturally with many of the examples Seattle gave, I wouldnt imagine any man in those situations would stick around because that limits his time exploring the other options. So after a while we develop a “f*ck you, pay me” attitude. Honestly, as bad as it sounds, we definitely have the option of not giving a damn how you feel, because eventually we will find someone who will let us do what we want. (And for some odd reason this usually turns out to be a woman of another race/culture. I’d like to take this moment to thank God for Latina and White women. Oh yea, he said it.) And you know what, that being the case ladies, dont settle, you keep searching until you find a man to put up with that incorrigible attitude of yours. So you can be independent, eat your damn cake and mean whatever the hell you’d like. I’ll be over here putting chivalry in the cut.
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We also have the option of not giving a damn about how you feel. Part of what makes us women the emotionally stupid creatures you often talk about/blog about, haunts us too, trust. Please don’t get it twisted, we usually don’t fall in love with your romantic disabilities and your lack of interest in caring about anyone but yourself, but rather your potential of being a wonderful man by having a woman in your life who wants nothing but to love you. I think if you didn’t look at financial independence or self responsibility a damn competition of who can do it better, you’d see that maybe someone just wants to take care of you emotionally and expects only the same in return. If you’re looking for someone who lets you do what you want, running rampant in the streets at all hours, living as a renegade, then I suggest you stay far away from a relationship and invest your time/money/interest in either a gold digger or a brothel.
As woman who likes to pick up the check at dinner, or at least my half, I will say this. At my age, and while in your twenties, we’re all trying to build ourselves a foundation for some type of projected monetary dynasty. I don’t expect you to make an added expense on my meal, just take care of yourself. I got me. Logically, every working human has enough money to feed one mouth, their own. If you just bought an iPhone and money’s kinda tight, don’t worry I got you. Reason being, I anticipate that you would learn by example that a relationship is about consideration and compassion, and hopefully I can count on you to be there for me if times are rough.
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More hot fire from the Southern Belle! We… well I like, I like. Without having another long dialogue, I’ll just respond to one comment of yours…
“I think if you didn’t look at financial independence or self responsibility [as] a damn competition of who can do it better, you’d see that maybe someone just wants to take care of you emotionally and expects only the same in return.”
You’ve captured my whole post within two lines and didn’t even know it. When it comes to this guy and most men of my stature, there’s no competition here. Especially if we’re in this together. No need for my independent woman to have to prove her self-worth and financial strengths to me. I already know about those, as well as your other fantastic characteristics, that’s why I’m here sitting across the table from you wanting to treat you or at least go half on this meal.
And scene…
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Well Belle, I dont answer to management (I basically made/saw all of you), so we can light this board up til they block us.
I do agree with your post, but I think the problem occurs when folks on both side of the coin let egos stand in the way. It blinds you from the bottom line which is building a future with/finding someone to build a future with. It just so happens that as a guy, I feel more I’d be more apt to take my ball and go home knowing I can probably meet another ready willing and able female by the time I hit the door. Not that women by any stretch of the imagination have a harder time meeting people, but they might be more prone to put up with b.s. knowing that most dudes are broke, a joke, dead, in jail or gay, or run into more dudes with this nonchalant attitude. Not saying it’s right, but it is what it is.
For instance, I have no problem going half or getting treated sometimes. But when you run into the female who insist on paying even if it means maxing out her card, you really cant do anything about that. A closed mouth cant get fed shorty. And trust me, I like the idea of US balling much more than ME balling. (BALLIN!)
Sorry, had to get ignant for a sec…
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This blog is going to win the award for longest comments to not be a post in itself.lol. I have nothing to contribute to this, because it seems like anything I may have thought of or considered has been said. Boo.
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Good post!
Like I said in Tiff’s post… some independent women (and note the word “some”) confuse independence with being a bitch… straight up. i’d like to classify myself as independent, and I hope I represent the avg independent woman, and I don’t mind chivalry AT ALL. As a matter of fact, I am always amazed (and even intrigued) by that guy who actually acts like a gentleman. And yes, please open the door for me, and pay for my meals… that’s great! I don’t believe chivalry kills my independence. To Belle’s point, his chivalry should be a sign that he’s interested in her, and willing to invest himself into a relationship (whether it’s serious or casual).
However, I do believe that bitches killed chivalry… in addition to poor home training.
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You know… I thought of another interesting topic that you guys can discuss, and it may even fit into this whole double standard theme.
What’s the difference btwn “talking” and “being in a relationship”? Is there a difference? And at what point does “talking” lead into “being in a relationship”? I’d like to read your perspectives on that.
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Great topic idea V. And no, this doesn’t mean someone should try to answer this in a comment. Wait for the post and then comment.lol.
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Thanks Miss V. The compliment is much appreciated. Also, good to know some women still appreciate chivalry. Even if it is the minority.
And as Slim said, we’ll get to your suggestion. Please stay tuned.
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I love chivalry, and if someone holds a door open for me, honestly I’m still shocked and very much appreciative. You should have tripped that hefa when she jumped down from the table…but that’s a whole ‘nother entry.
But I feel that as women, its been engraved in our brain matter to: get an education, be INDEPENDENT (thanks boosie) and never, eva, eva, eva NEED to depend on a man. Cause they will only cause you pain, right? Wrong, that’s where the problem lies.
We’ve been taught to get it on our own, that when we finally reach the pinnacle of our “success”, its sort of hard for most women to learn how to balance taking care of themselves and letting their man, be a MAN. Now, on the other hand, there are some men who have made it difficult to trust and lean on, in turn making these women swear off them.
So it would seem that some men need to learn to step up to the plate, and some women need to learn to loosen the reigns a little and let him drive.
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The reason why a lot of women think they have to do it all themselves because unforunately men have shown us they can’t be depended on.
Let’s take something as simple as getting the door held open. You can be about to go into the store, post office or office building and the guy ahead of you will close the door in your face or let the door close in your face instead of holding it open for you. If you can’t depend on a man to do something as simple as holding the door open for you; you know you can’t depend on him for more serious things.
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So having brothers, a boyfriend, and several male friends I am constantly bombarded with this male “woe is me” everything that is wrong with the gender realtions is caused by women. If you in deed look at it historically, gender roles began to change after the world wars when men were abroad fighting and dying for our country and women had to step up and take care of industry at home. When the men returned (and we know it wasn’t as many of them that left) they needed to reestablish their role, and really have yet to do so. Most women didn’t join the workforce because they wanted to, they did it because they had to and that reality has continued into today. Single income households with kids in most cases are not able to enjoy the lifestyle that they want to live. (Men step up and make enough money so that I can live the way that I want and shit, I scrub the floors and bake cakes all day!)
As for chivalry in general I can’t lie and say that I don’t love a man that will open the door, pull out my chair, and pick up the check without wavering for a second. But I also recognize that not all women have been programmed the way that I have (no one is to blame, just the changing economy). However, what I have noticed with chivlary is that the definition of it varies significantly from person to person, especially when money is involved. A “chivalrous” guy is always willing to pay when he doesn’t think that the girl can provide for herself, but once he gets a whiff of the money she has stored underneath her bed for a rainy day he starts thinking that he’s being taken advantage of, and all of the sudden he shifts from “baby put your money away” to “baby why don’t you get this bill.” I personally don’t ask for the guy to pay for me, and I ALWAYS make sure when a guy takes me out that I have enough to pay for whatever we are about to do.
Its not a gender war here people, its an individual war. Don’t judge a whole gender based on the way that one or two people treat you, (that’s for both men and women). Also maybe we should all look at redefining what Chivalry means in the modern age of automatic doors.
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Given that chivalry applies to men and their (expectation for) treament of women, what’s the word for women and their treatment of men?
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A friend of mine forwarded this blog to me and I must say that I am quickly becoming a fan…
To answer Slim’s question, I think that in response to chivalry, a woman is expected to be “ladylike”. A lady can be defined as “a woman who is the object of chivalrous devotion”.
The whole concept of chivalry comes from the medieval court and the expectation is that a woman who is the “object of chivalrous devotion” would be a woman of the court and hence courteous.
My momma taught me that women should comport themselves like ladies and have a certain grace about them.
In terms of dating, especially on the first few dates, when I go out with a man I put effort into the date. I wear a skirt, I’m polite, I smile, I listen to what dude has to say, I’m attentive, I try not to run my mouth and dominate the conversation.
Now my father always told me to leave the house with enough money to pay for my own meal and find my own way home, that’s just a must… however, I think that before a brother throws me a side eye for not reaching for my purse when the check comes, let’s acknowledge that I took time out of my week to find the perfect outfit that I’d feel good in but you’d also think was sexy, I have on heels and I’m not at work. My nails and toes are most likely freshly done (even if I really could have waited another week). I spent an extra hour in the bathroom shaving, waxing, plucking and whatever else. My hair is done, my contacts are in. Hell, I even made sure my house is extra clean, and there’s breakfast in the fridge if this happens to be your lucky night.
… okay I know that was a bit of a tangent but last date I went on I was asked to split a check for $31.82 and I am still not over it…
My point is that as a woman who tries at all times to be a lady, I expect a little chivalry in return from men.
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Good points. I think most dudes expect that a chick will put herself together for a (real) date. It’s pretty easy for us since we can be ready in like 20 minutes unless
ambiguously gaymetrosexual…not that there’s anything wrong with that. I guess it is fair to expect more than a shower and some fresh clothes in return for your efforts. By the way, where did you go on a date where the bill came to $31.82 w/ tax for 2 people? Did you only drink waters?Reply
Love the dialog!!!
Living in today’s world, I have learned not to expect the traditional door opening and such…sadly, when it happens, I am usually surprised, and if I continue to go out with Mr. Chivalry, I have to make a conscious effort not to reach for the door, or wait for my chair to be pulled out, or hold back from reaching for bags.
I agree with ife1love. Women aren’t just passively waiting for a man to pay for dinner, etc. Its almost an exchange of sorts. We get all dolled up and pretty, and pay attention the little things that make a man double take. Thankfully, I have never been asked to pay for my half a meal, though I am always prepared to do so. I think my jaw will still be on the floor…pause.
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**sigh**
ESPN Zone @ the bar, watching NBA playoffs. I had a chicken caesar salad and a pint. He had buffalo wings and 2 pints. I get not even 1/2 way through my salad and he says we need to go soon cause he needs to get up early for work (it was 8:45… pause…) when the check comes he says “do you mind if we split this?” and yes, the bartender did give him a side eye and shake his head when he heard him ask. My jaw did in fact almost hit the floor. I actually would have paid the entire bill myself and caught a cab home if my bag w/ my work stuff was not in his car.
To make matters worse… he didn’t leave a tip.
Yeah, that was our first and LAST date…
**sigh**
Oh, and to those who might think that maybe this was his way of saying he wasn’t interested, UH..NO… on the way home homeboy threw on the 90s slow jam mix and started giving me bedroom eyes and talking about how he’s a scorpio…
BOOOOOOO!
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LMFAO. Chivalry at its worst!
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What a lame…
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lol @ the 90s slow jam mix.
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Ok. Ok. OK. I make this post at the risk of apparently sounding ambiguously gay, but @#$! it, I can definitely forward you the resume.
This is why I have a double hander with chivalry unmercifully in the cut. From the sounds of things, us men are just neanderthals from parts unknown who should be consider ourselves lucky to be graced by your presence huh? First off, as a dark skinnded brother, I dont think the rest of world understands how hard it is to make all this darkness look so smooth and irresistable. Then there’s the shaving, and if you are rocking a baldy, you have to maintain it, cuz there’s nothing worse than looking bald til someone sees your stubble up close. And do you smell this cologne? I went to the OTHER mall to get this shit. I really could have showed up in a white tee and jeans (Evisu of course) because that’s what I feel comfy in, but I decided to rock this fly ass blazer and yes, everything matches.
Yea, you got dolled up, but I got bossed up, and dont you forget it. I still dont mind paying, but please know that the kid put in some effort. Thank you.
(My ego gets the best of me at times.)
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LOL. At times, huh?
Do know that women LOVE a well put together man…we do appreciate the effort you put in as well.
And last time I checked, light skinned dudes went out of style (Sorry Slim).
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Unless a study came out that said the darker the berry, the bigger the piece (PAUSE), light-skinned dudes are still in the mix. Despite my affiliation, if it wasn’t for light-skinned dudes, one fraternity wouldn’t even exist…just kidding. Eff outta here wit that Tif. lol. But seriously, as long as light-skinned folks like Boris Kodjoe are still causing hurricane flood waters in undergarments across the world, I’m safe.
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I must say, Boris is the one exception to my rule. However, I love a dark skinned man. They look like chocolate. There are few women that will pass up a good piece…of chocolate.
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Tiff , by “at times” I mean constantly.
As we discovered in Episode 3, it is not the size of your light saber, but how you use it, Young Skywalker, henceforth the saying being “the sweeter the juice”. It’s the differene between hearing “Don’t touch me”(amidst body shivers) and hearing “Uh…I have to wake up early to wash my hair…you gotta go.” I just want the efforts of the non-ashy dark skinnded to brothers to be appreciated, because we spend most of our income on cocoa butter and/or baby oil or baby oil lotion.
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Ohhh Lex… no resume necessary.
“us men are just neanderthals from parts unknown who should be consider ourselves lucky to be graced by your presence huh?”
No, you’re not all neanderthals and I applaud your grooming efforts and trips to the other mall (shoooot that other mall is far).
I know rocking a baldy w/ a clean cut visage is pricey, and it takes effort to pick a signature fragrance (don’t buy into those Axe ads). I also aware that all body butter & oil prices are currently inappropriate (I’m suddenly reminded of a friend who uses olive oil and buys it in those big cans… still mad about it).
We all have a responsiblity as adults to leave the house looking presentable when going out in public. However, if we itemize, I’m absolutly sure there’s no comparison between male and female maintenance costs.
But it’s not all about what you have on. I just used putting effort into your appearance as one example. My main point is that chivalry should be afforded to women who present themselves as deserving of chivalrous decorum. It’s not just a matter of getting gussied up ’cause haute couture on a crackhead does not a lady make.
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