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Seattle Washington: A couple weeks ago, a good friend of ours sent us a New York Times article that pointed out that more men are marrying women with equal to higher incomes than them. It’s no surprise seeing that women have been graduating from college at a higher percentage than men and we are beginning to see more and more women in the workforce. Those that have graduated in the past 5 – 10 years will definitely see the difference in the amount of women in entry to mid-level positions than in the higher levels. Also, more women are pursuing higher education than ever and in turn expecting more of their salary. Seeing that I don’t foresee going to grad school anytime soon, I’m pretty sure my wife will have more degrees than me as well. And I’m pretty sure she’ll have just as much income if not more than I. Do I have a problem with that? Not really. Someone pass me a bottle of Andre please.
The Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele: Actually, we ran out of Andre a while ago… I’ve been spiking your Sparkling Cider with vodka. I call it Andre light – same OK taste, less filling. Anyhoo, I have to say that I’m not shocked by the findings in this article. I can remember during my college years having to be corrected by female grad students that they were in the 1st year of their 2nd degree and not the 5th year of their 1st. 5 years later these same women now have fancy titles, a bunch of consonants behind their name and the good kind of zeroes in their bank accounts. While there’s been a myriad of discussions surrounding the SBF phenomenon that has swept the country, the article in question speaks to women of all races and creeds that make that cheddar, but can definitely answer some of a sister’s ”Why am I so single” questions.
SW: That it does. But those few lucky women who trapped have them a good man who’s loves a strong [insert race here] woman more than NeYo and Webbie combined have their own battle. There is still a negative connotation associated with dating a woman who’s smarter or makes more money than you. Why? Well the archetype of man is based around being the “breadwinner.” If we’re not doing that, men are at a loss. Searching for an identity. I’ve seen both sides. Both my parents worked hard to get the family into a stable place and then when my mom fell ill, my dad picked up the slack. My mom did say she would’ve fell back to be a part-time or full-time housewife if she remained healthy, but how may women would really do that nowadays?
RCLS: And I as I see it, that’s a big part of the problem. Many of us men that were raised in households with fathers grew up observing classic gender roles. Now that we’re out in the world where the dynamic has changed, we’re still attempting to use an ancient paradigm to solve a modern equation. What’s really throwing off the equation is the ego of men that pretty much feel they are playing second fiddle to the Sasha Fierce in their lives. (Did I just make a Beyonce reference? FML) Keeping your ego quiet is about as easy as keepin’ Kanye off the mic during your award acceptance speech, but when you look at the facts for what they are, there is no denying that egos are driving a huge rift between the sexes. Some people, mostly men, would argue that women are the ones that should fall back and check their egos, but according to her bank account homie, she could actually just hire you for a desired task and keep it moving. Check that.
SW: You really are progressive referencing Sasha Fierce. Do you have any India Arie quotes you would like to throw out there as well? Nonetheless, you make a great point. Things are different now. Both men and women will have to change and evolve with the times. I would argue that this has started way before us, but I was nothing but a twinkle in my mom’s eye when it probably started so I can’t verify that. I can confidently say that I’d be OK with my wife having more money than I, well, because I’ve been there. The key is respect. When I am successful I will do my best not to hang my paycheck over my wife’s head, so I would only ask that she does the same if she’s bringing home more cake than a pothead with the munchies. Can you imagine a woman telling you to stop watching the TV she bought to take the trash out of her house? If it’s really going to work, everything needs to be ours.
RCLS: Well…an Aretha Franklin quote would be a bit corny and obvious to throw out right now, so I’ll just let everyone hum that one in their heads. But I think most men feel that if their SO makes more than them, then she doesn’t respect you. If you’re a lazy, no ambition having muthaf*cka then yes, she probably has no respect for you, and is either in the process of leaving you, or keeps you around for the one thing you can do well. On the other hand as long as you are handling your business, if you have a real connection with this woman, money and degrees should not be the issues that makes or breaks the balance in your dealings with the opposite sex. Ok, you can stop hummin’ now.
SW: Damn. That was beautiful, introspective and honest. I feel like I need to say something outrageously inappropriate just so people know it’s really us writing this…
The Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, Don’t worry, the fancy signature will be back next week
Seattle – Have a Baby By Me Baby, Make Me a Millionaire – Washington
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If you’re a lazy, no ambition having muthaf*cka then yes, she probably has no respect for you, and is either in the process of leaving you, or keeps you around for the one thing you can do well. On the other hand as long as you are handling your business, if you have a real connection with this woman, money and degrees should not be the issues that make or break the balance in your dealings with the opposite sex.
*co-sign*
From a females’ perspective, I think that if both parties are contributing to the household, then it’s all good. What’s the problem with more income coming in the household (regardless of who contributes more)? That’s an upgrade for both of us.
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“A couple weeks ago, a ‘GOOD FRIEND’ of ours sent us a New York Times article that pointed out that more men are marrying women with equal to higher incomes than them.”
‘GOOD FRIEND’ = ME!
Some friends I tell yah. Can’t even get a shout out even when you’re in the room while the post is being written. BLASPHEMOUS! I’ll be back later. Good post by the way. I’ll be back later to add my 22 cents…
Haha
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The Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, Pro Bowler Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:58 am
ME, ME ME…c’mon son.
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A guy I know (who’s been trying to get at me for the last week or so) always likes to talk about how much money he makes.
I appreciate his willingness to show his ability to care for a family, but I kinda need him to stop. In my mind, that’s not what’s going to hold us together
if I lose my mind in the next few days and give in to these half-assed advancesAnd it’s not about me being sure I’ll make more money than him; odds are I won’t,
not until I finally implement my plan to take over the world, anywayit’s about having a discussion that goes outside of the monetary value we bring to the table. Things are shifting and many women are looking for more than a paycheck in a potential husband.Reply
Seattle, I’m still waiting on my welfare check.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Oh really? Wow. Well click here for more info on that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpugp6DIb3I
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I’m glad you guys wrote this post. If I did, some folks would have had a field day with me.
“On the other hand as long as you are handling your business, if you have a real connection with this woman, money and degrees should not be the issues that make or break the balance in your dealings with the opposite sex.”
Co-sign.
You guys touched on something that I think may people overlook…the way that the dynamics between men and women are changing. Please are so busy playing the blame game — pointing fingers at dads and moms and TV and everything else — that they fail to look at what s/he as an individual contributes to a given relationship.
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The issue of money is way over blown. At this point I have no clue who is going to make more money in my relationship. However, I know it’s not going to affect the way we treat each other. I still plan on wearing the ceremonial pants (not that I am bossing anyone around, just that I act like a dude).
I do hope I will make more money. B/c I just feel like that means I would have more say in how our money is spent as a couple. And to be honest, I’m better with my money than most, even though wifey held me down when I was unemployed. During that period of time, I definitely felt a lack of ‘say so’.
I think the whole degree thing is taken way out of context and highly overvalued in BEP (black educated professional) world. I don’t think people take into account what you want to do as a career and how education plays a role in that. I am only getting more education b/c I WASN’T EFFECTIVE with what I had. We shouldn’t link status with degree(s), we would be better off linking debt with degree(s). I’m not trying to diss anybody’s hard work; just trying to avoid the Kanye West Lil Jimmy Skit from College Dropout.
I think the whole degree thing is taken way out of context and highly overvalued in BEP (black educated professional)world. I don’t think people take into account what you want to do as a career and how education plays a role in that. I am only getting more education b/c I WASN’T EFFECTIVE with what I had. We shouldn’t link status with degree(s), we would be better off linking debt with degree(s). I’m not trying to diss anybody’s hard work; just trying to avoid the Kanye West Lil Jimmy Skit from College Dropout.
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:10 am
*gasp* I.agree.with.CheekZ.
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CHeeKZ Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:12 am
Welcome to the dark side….
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N.I.A. lovesthekids Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:22 am
co-sign
**off-topic alert**
I don’t want to deter anyone from law school, but if you aren’t planning on actually practicing law, then you may want to consider other ways to get to where you want to be. But, if you really need that J.D., Esq. tag, then find some money somewhere to help defray the cost of your legal education. Trust me, it’s serious out here….
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Miss Jenkins Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:24 am
It’s too late for some…
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Reecie Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:45 pm
someone hipped me to that a good 5 years ago, which is why I said I was good on going, after comtemplating it in undergrad. lol I’m actually completely over any more formal education at this point of my life but that may change…I doubt it though. lol
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:28 pm
I concur. In my industry I don’t need grad school, all I need is experience. Tell that to my family who thinks I should’ve gotten my masters by now in something totally irrelevant to my field.
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ASmith Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:33 pm
I’m only going to grad school because I can’t counsel chil’rens in school without a M.Ed to do so.
Otherwise, graduate degrees, outside of specific ones like JDs, MBAs and MDs are pointless, IMO.
My mom STILL goes on and on about how I just should’ve gone ahead and gotten into graduate school. I told her, “you don’t play around in grad school, that’s what undergrad is for. People in graduate school should know what they want…”
And I gotta fend off aunts and uncles (and my ex’s parents; both of whom are MDs) who still think I should go to law school. For what?! Lawd Jeebus it’s irritating.
I’m not sold on getting a doctorate, either. I thought about it, but I don’t see the point. The salary differential doesn’t match the cost differential. Please and thanks.
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This post covers all basis.
I think so many good dudes are afraid of the idea of their women making more money than them for two reasons: 1) everyone will see them as less of a man and 2) it removes the control that men have traditionally held over women.
I personally have no issue w/ SO making more guaps. I think that if your effort is equal, your say in the running of the relationship should be equal as well, regardless of your income
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I think there are a couple of issues at work here: (In no particular hierarchy)
1 – You have to discuss finances
I think people try so hard to downplay money with their S/O because they want to show that it doesn’t matter what he/she makes, but it absolutely does. (I don’t understand all the secrecy about salary anyway, especially if you are in a relationship…)
2 – Class
I don’t mind if I may make more money than my future husband, but coming from my profession, which is known for demanding the most amount of education, for the least amount of pay, chances are, that won’t happen. My future husband will most likely be a professional, because that is the network I’m in. Now if I marry a blue-collar man, who makes significantly less, then that’s another story, and both people have to be comfortable enough with each other and their economic situation. I agree with SW that things must be ours Referencing the movie, Why Did I Get Married, you can’t do the whole “Angela” and “Marcus” This is MY money arguing. It’s not going to work.
Finally, I know a few women who are surprisingly content with being housewifes; however, those same women hold MBA’s and Ph.Ds and choose to take a step back to their man, not because they are ill-equipped to do otherwise. That ship sailed a loooong time ago, lol…
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S0_Flyy Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:35 am
iCo-sign the housewife point all day. I am soooo willing to stay home all day and clean, cook, etc & I’ll have my MBA in December.
If he can make us as comfortable — working alone — as both of us would have made us working together. Why I gotta work? Lol. However, it is highly likely that I could be the breadwinner in my family… and I hope the potential ‘he’ is okay with that.
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Peyso Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:22 am
Real rap though, and pawse, i could be a house dad
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Seattle Washington Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I’ll be honest, I don’t think I could do that. Not because of my ego, but because I like working. I like doing something. I like having several jobs. If my wife did make more money than I, I’d have to do something. Even if it was working from home or consulting.
My family’s Jamaican. Working is in the blood. If I’m not working, I’ll go crazy.
[death to anyone thinking of that corny "Jamaican Me Crazy" joke right now]
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N.I.A. lovesthekids Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Actually, I was thinking of my favorite stereotypical harworking Jamaican jokes. Hey Mon… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MHt8uTa4c
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nyhoop Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:56 pm
LMAO!!! In Living Color was the first thing to come to my mind as well, hehehe
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PYTJD Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:36 am
*Co-sign that stay at home mom* Man just call me Mrs. Cleaver, Esq. The house will be clean, kids fed, draws folded and starched every day and you’ll get some intelligent conversation to boot. Sign me up right now for that house wife gig. This law ish is for the birds lol.
BTW good post!
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On the other hand as long as you are handling your business, if you have a real connection with this woman, money and degrees should not be the issues that makes or breaks the balance in your dealings with the opposite sex.
I think this is the most important, and the most overlooked, point of it all. If you and your lady are both contributing to the relationship in all ways, including financially, who makes the most money should not matter. In a relationship, sometimes you have to check your ego, and do what’s best for the team. This goes for men and women. My man will be the head of our household, whether or not he makes a higher salary.
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N.I.A. lovesthekids Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:08 am
I’m the Anonymous. Hit “post” too fast.
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This topic ties very closely to the intimidation one from Monday, but I doubt it will stir up as much controversy since MEN (ahem) wrote it. Nonetheless, I get frustrated being on the spitty end of this situation as always.
I think a lot of things are left out of this topic (perhaps intentionally). For instance, if a woman makes significantly more than a man, do the roles then change a bit as far as who’s expected to pay, buy groceries, or pay bills? I mean, if I’m a lawyer (I’m not) and cohab with a blue color dude, SHOULDN’T I be expected to put up more for common pot bills? I dunno. And if I do, THEN does it take away from the masculinity or feeling of necessity of my man?
Furthermore, if it’s mostly my money, should I be the one delegating it? My mom gets a certain “allowance” every month from my Dad since he’s the CPA and handles the bills. Well, being that I was raised by a CPA and am likewise a number person AND potentially make more money than future hubs, should I be giving HIM an allowance? Balls in chokehold type?
There are a lot of sticky situations that arise when the “typical” gender roles are reversed. Even if I’m not mentioning every day how much I bring to the table, a man might be thinking about it and feeling demasculined. Shit, I’m probably feeling less feminine having to do it all. Sometimes I feel like I’m gonna end up taking the L and suffering a major income cut when I get married so I can be a stay at home Mom and keep the tension at a minimum. I know not all women feel this way. But the way I see it, we have a long way to go before this “gender equality” thing REALLY starts to work and make sense in relationships. And until then, I’d rather have a family than a career anyway. But that’s just me.
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Brownbelle Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Why can’t you both be equally involved in the finances? I give myself an allowance each month to keep myself to a budget, so if my husband makes more than me and gives me an allowance so be it. As long as we can discuss a fair amount before hand ($20 a week ain’t gonna cut it!), then I’m cool. That’s how you keep your money, by handling it wisely.
I’m sure that men whose wives outearn them feel a little emasculated, but I believe that they’ll get over it provided that it isn’t lorded over them. No matter who makes the most money, or if I decide to become a stay at home mom, all that “MY MONEY” nonsense flies out the window. If we’re married and you’re steady talking about what’s yours, then I don’t know if we need to be together because marriage is a partnership.
I think a lot of this tension comes from the fact that people are getting married later anyway. My parents got hitched right out of college, so they built a life from the ground up and my mom eventually became a full time housewife when she had kids. But they started out as equals so it was never an issue. However, when two 35 year olds who are set in their ways get married, it’s really hard to get out of that selfish mindset because you’re so used to having your own. Consequences of the changing times.
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On the other hand as long as you are handling your business, if you have a real connection with this woman, money and degrees should not be the issues that makes or breaks the balance in your dealings with the opposite sex.
^^
Chuuch, Tabernacle, Synagogue, Mosque, Planetarium (Scientology..#youmad?)!!!
At this point, if I’m bringing something to the table and you’ve attained more success than I, shime sweetheart SHINE! I encourage it. It may even help motivate a dude to excel. If you are secure than a woman whose income > yours is NO issue!
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The Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, Pro Bowler Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:13 am
LMAO @ planetarium
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This is so interesting. My husband and I were talking about this VERY thing this morning. A couple that we know the wife is a doctor and the husband and a stay at home dad to a child who is in school all day. In a discussion with the husband he said “she is making enough there is no need for me to work. I am getting used to being home not working.” I almost choked I was laughing so hard. I said that lazy so and so would so do something. NOW THAT I can not respect, you just let someone take care of you and you be a bum. I have more details that I will not share here but know ole boy is doing nothing…No sir, no thank you, do not pass go, do not collect $100. A woman will respect a man who is “trying” to do something.
At the same time it is not about who is bring in the “most” money. It is about equal contribution to the household. It is a team effort it is not who can outshine the other with their paycheck every pay period. If one makes more than the other and the breadwinner is the woman wow…WE still have more money TOGETHER to provide for our family. When you get married it is not about egos..lawd I will quote a Tyler Perry movie prepare yourself, “you give up the I’s for us”, but that is what it is in a nut shell.
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The Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, Pro Bowler Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:38 pm
I don’t know the particulars, but if they’ve established in their relationship that the Doc makes enough bread for them to eat, then so be it. An argument can be made that if he got a job, they’d be able to more than afford after school care, but maybe they’ve decided that being home w/ a parent after school is more effective child rearing that sending to afterschool care.
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Kasey Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:14 pm
I do wish that parenting was the reason…
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if my wife ends up making more money than i do, we are going to be living one hell of a life (if things workout according to plan). i wouldn’t mind if my future wife made more money than i did. what’s hers is mine and what’s mine is hers, right? i also wouldn’t care if my wife was smarter than me. i really don’t think i’m that intelligent anyway. bright, yes. intelligent, not so much.
i don’t think i’ll ever have to worry about gender roles. God-willing i’ll be making more than enough money anyway to pay bills. her money can go towards groceries, shopping, whatever else. maybe i’m just old fashioned like that. *shrug*
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I’m applying to schools so I can get my JD/MBA/MD degree and be so incredibly powerful that my wife will never ever be able to challenge my income.
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The Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, Pro Bowler Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:39 pm
All that readin, you’ll never have time to get laid again.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:46 pm
I was going to say something about putting the book on her back, but that would hurt my eyes.
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SoBKAllDAY Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:49 pm
“All that readin, you’ll never have time to get laid again.”
and to quote another reader
“Chuuch, Tabernacle, Synagogue, Mosque, Planetarium !”
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An older woman who delivers the mail to the offices in my building just walked past my desk, still talking to our staff assistant (aka, mail guy)…
“I gotta get married so I don’t have to work anymore. I’m marrying the first thing in a pair of pants. He better work and not talk.”
This is me, still cackling, cause she was dead ass..
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In theory, I believe that two secure, mature, and adult people can work through the woman making more. But, after having men recoil from the fact that I’m nerdy smart, and driven, and (occaisionally) have a higher salary than them, I feel that we are further from that being the norm than we think.
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