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Why Black Mamba and Jigga won’t ever be The One
Sorry fellas...
On paper, these two gentlemen are ahead of their class in just about every category (and their interviews are hotter, so holla). They’ve held us down several summers, showcasing their immense talents in various venues, and show no signs of slowing down anytime very soon. For all their efforts, they’re still not as respected as they probably feel they should be, for no other reason than them being hated. The people that love Jay and Kobe, love Jay and Kobe, but the people that hate them really hate them. That fact alone may keep them from being held near and dear to people’s hearts as the best to ever do it.
Check it…
Kobe – If you’ve caught any games that Mr. Bryant has played in this years playoffs, you have witnessed that son is in fact, the truth. Outside J…workin’. He’s breakin’ all kinds of playoff records, and will no doubt go down as one of the greatest Lakers to ever lace ‘em up, but sure as hell won’t ever be “The Logo”. But despite all his success, this guy is deeply hated by even the casual fan. My facebook news feed is littered with status messages along the lines of “I’d kill Kobe for a Klondike bar”. Seriously? Even at the height of his popularity, I don’t remember Jordan being as hated as Kobe is. Even through the hate, there was still a respect he commanded that Kobe doesn’t seem to have among the people. It doesn’t help that every English speaking sports pundit finds it necessary to compare him to His Airness every chance they get. Alonzo Mourning’s doormat turned ABC play by play guy Jeff Van Gundy brought it up last night: “In order for Bryant to win, he has to win.” He comes off as a bit of jerk and that Colorado incident doesn’t help matters much (neither does the whole snitchin’ on Shaq thing). At this rate he’ll have to win 5 more chips and clean up the BP oil spill, then walk on the water before he can get on the good side of his harshest critics.
Jay – More #1 albums that the Beatles, multiple platinum records that have went platinum multiple times, multiple time “plaque” winner, myriads of sold out concerts, got Oprah and Obama on speed dial, got the “baddest chick in the game” and yet…where’s the love? In addition to taking shots from rappers above ground, he’ll never live down the question of “What if Biggie and/or ‘Pac didn’t get shot” from fans still loyal to the slain rappers. You can argue the point that Jay’s recorded far more records than them and sold more records than his peers that are still alive and you’ll still get someone that’ll say “Yea, but did you hear ‘Ether’?” In addition to competing with his peers, he has to keep up with the ever changing landscape of rap music and contend with young cats trying to make a name for themselves by gettin’ at Jay as the whine about him stealing their shine.
This is not a plea to masses to endear these cats as your favorites of all time…like who you want, I’m not making cases for them, because that’s a never ending argument. Their careers are far from over, and for all we know, they could both end up being exponentially surpassed by the likes of Drake and Lebron, making the conversation irrelevant. Jay is correct, men lie, women lie, and numbers don’t, but public perception is a motherf*cker and the road to the status they desire goes right down Public Perception Ave. Even though numbers may suggest they should be crowned Kings of their realm, they would be regarded as two of the most hated Kings to reign. Greatness is not without it’s critics, but it will be rather difficult to gain the respect of their critics the way any great public figure does. Oh well…what they eat don’t make me sh*t…
Go ahead…tell me how much you hate Kobe and Jay Z.
Lakers in 7,
80 Responses to “Why Black Mamba and Jigga won’t ever be The One”
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In order for me to completely comprehend this post RCLS, I think I need to be as high up in cloud 9 like as how you are lol real talk…
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Marvel of Modern Evolution Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Hit the slopes, then read it again. It might make more sense then.
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SaneN85 Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:59 am
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I’m sorry for laughing, but that was too funny.
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I love Kobe. You don’t have to like him as a person but you are a true hater if you can’t respect him as a player. He is one of the greatest of all time. You can’t deny that.
Lakers in 7. I hope I don’t have to work the day of the parade.
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The Kobe hate is understandable. He doesn’t have Jordan’s charisma, and doesn’t want to. He’s the epitome of an assassin. Check out his interviews: You ask a stupid ?tion, he treats you as such. Reporters want a cuddly joking answer he gives them matter-of-fact. He knows who he’s compared to, and does everything in his power to surpass him. You’re suppose to aspire to be better than the best, right?
Also, Jordan definitely had a lot of haters in his day (myself included). I ALWAYS respected that man though! The disrespect for Kobe’s game is atrocious. People inflate Jordans legacy to compensate for Kobe’s greatness. They act like Jordan didn’t get his ass whopped by Isaiah and em for 3 years straight before making it to the promised land. They act like he never in his life went to a 7 game series in any playoff round. They act like MJ never got outplayed in a game!! They act like Michael didn’t tarnish his legacy by playing with the Wizards!!!
Mike went 6 for 6 in the finals. cool. This is Kobe’s 7th. Lost 2. He also had titles in his career earlier than Jordan. Look at all the game-winning shots. Look at that game 5 third quarter!! I know Michael Jordan’s game. Grew up on it. No one is closer to MJ than KOBE. NO ONE!!
Like my dude @WilliamHStrafe said, Kobe needs 6 before you can have that conversation, but people need to stop diminishing this man’s greatness because of his personal shortcomings.
Mind you, I’m a Knicks fan, but real recognize real.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 9:16 am
yo man.
Jordan won his rings with a big man.
And he took off for a year and a half during the prime of his career. Came back more dominate.. than left AGAIN! No the Wizard run didn’t go well… but hey very few great ones come out on top.
Plus Kobe did alot of things younger, but lets remember he skipped college and was drafted to a contending team.
Mike Francesa says Kobe isn’t even the best Laker of all time: Jerry West. Magic Johnson. than Kobe.
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Dark as the Night that covers me Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Until Jerry West isn’t the logo anymore, he’ll undoubtedly be the greatest Laker, so that’s not even up for discussion. But I think Kobe-Magic is a fair argument, especially if LA closes out Boston Thursday and Kobe cops his fifth. With the numbers Kobe is putting up, he’ll be ahead of Magic in a lot of categories by the time it’s all said and done, but I’m pretty sure people will still love Magic more than Kobe…cuz after all…he’s Magic! Son came out in a press conference, said he was knockin down 5 to 6 women at a time, clearly was cheating on Cookie and what happens? He gets an All Star nod, plays for the Dream Team and gets a talk show for like 2 minutes. Kobe will probably never get such love.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:09 am
well that is the arguement.
Magic and Jordan left early. They would have put up Karl Malone numbers if they didn’t have those personal issues.
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I don’t like Kobe for the simple fact he does come off as a douche. He has this arrogance about him that is really a turn-off…and he’s a snitch. I don’t like snitches…yes, he plays good ball but can the negroe crack a smile every now and then…..he is blessed and he acts like if he doesn’t win he is going to lose it! I bet he’s like that in the bedroom..all jackhammer and no finesse…..he always seems tight about something..what in the world do you have to be tight about milliondollar Kobe…huh? This guy really gets on my nerves….
As for Jay..I like him. He’s cool. Anybody that has Oprah on speed dial is alright with me…Plus, I am a total fan of his wife. He seems to be a charitable brotha and likes to give back….he seems humble. He knows where he came from…and he knows where he’s going.
When Kobe stops playing I can’t see him doing anything else….he is not a well-rounded person. He does one thing well and that’s it. He won’t be MJ and he won’t be Majic Johnson..he better play until they retire him.
Go Celtics!
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Slim Jackson Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Kobe’s douchery does stand out. It’s in his demeanor during post game press conferences and even on the court. Everybody can’t be a nice guy, but I definitely don’t see him as being that nice a person outside of hoops. He just gives that vibe. I’m curious to see what he does after basketball. Then again, he technically doesn’t have to do anything at all except wipe his ass with money.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:05 am
nah yo.. he also has to live down that whack song he made featuring Tyra Banks on the hook… whack ass rappin’ kobe…
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:03 am
oddly enough Hov was suppose to executive produce that album.
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heeeeere we gooooo!!! (i love when there’s sports/music talk on 3ways)
If anyone says Kobe isn’t one of the greatest ever, they’re silly. I can really only come up with 4 or 5 players who are “greater” than Kobe in the history of basketball. However, ppl (me included) don’t like Kobe cause he’s a cornball and he snitched on shaq. And some didn’t like that stupid afro he used to rock.
Regardless, I don’t think the Kobe/Jay comparisons are all that similar.
Disclaimer: I have incredible respect for Jay’s talents as a rapper and maybe even moreso what he’s been able to do in terms of stretching where hip-hop can go.
That being said, Jay-Z has admittedly “dumbed down” his music to get money, which helped push the idea of mediocre music (as long as it pays) which ended up spawning acts like Waka Flocka who feel like rapping ability is meaningless and raping the culture to get a buck is cool. He basically threw a snowball down a mountain that became an avalanche.
Before you disagree with me know two things:
1. it wasn’t JUST Jay who did this, but artists in general..
2. jay has just been the most successful so I’m taking the “aim at the big tree” approach.
Some fault Jay cause he’s “too arrogant”. That’s silly to me cause braggin’ is a fundamental part of being an emcee. I only fault Jay cause though he had the ability (or maybe he didn’t) he really didn’t push the culture artistically nearly as much as he did business wise.. which is why I call him “The Music Business’ Greatest Rapper Ever” but he’s far from the Greaters Rapper of All Time. Men lie, Women lie, but the music doesn’t.
Favorite Jay Albums:
Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, Black Album
Honorable Mention: Blueprint 2
I don’t mess with “European” Hov like that… (post black album jay..)
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 9:36 am
…
Jay may have dumb down his music. But your favorite artist struggles just to keep up with dumb Hov.
So why are we knocking his legacy if his greatest fault is not competing against himself?
I don’t think Hov made his music ‘dumb’ he just spit it slower and less complex. That ‘sell out’ Hov stage is what keeps him out of my top five, but I think its crazy to say that THIS european hov is dumbed down. Current Hov will wax every rapper every time, at age 40. That’s insane.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:04 am
1st of all MY favorite artist struggles to keep up with Dumb Hov? You understand who my favorite artists are right?
2ndly, I’m not knocking Jay’s legacy. Did you read my disclaimer? i said “i only fault jay…”. maybe it was a bad choice of words that didn’t express what I mean.. I’m sorry.
3rdly, jay DID dumb is music down. he said it himself and it’s evidenced in his music. way less metaphors, less wordplay, less substance. his raps were still better than your average dude at that time but it wasn’t close to great. (i’m talking 1998-2001 Jay). After 2001 he never got back to 96-97 jay but he did bring it back in that direction.
when did u become the big hov fan anyway, cheekz?
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:44 am
by favorite artist.. I am talking about Kanye West. While I am well aware that Black Though is waaay higher on your personal fav list than Kanye. I am picking on Kanye West b/c you have never in the history of your life said a bad word about Kanye West. And Dumb Hov is better than him.
2. This arguement is void b/c my fav rapper is Nas and he is better than anybody else’s favorite. So there.
3. We clearly agree on the dumb Hov phase. But that was a small part of his career, Dog. Its been a whole decade since ‘dumb’ Hov dissappeared. I think he has made up for that period with great work. And as well as being a successful bizness man (which has no place in thie conversation) he has been a great care taker of the culture and has actually fought against the dumbing down.
4)We can’t hold someone’s greatest against him. He was really spitting 96-98. Just b/c he doesn’t go back to that doesn’t mean he isn’t great. When Jordan first left he was the best athlete in bball ever, than young bulls like Grant Hill, Penny, and A. Iverson came in with their quickness and he had baseball knees. He adjusted and got with the unstoppable fade away jumper. You are punishing Hov for adjusting. No he isn’t the lyrical athlete he use to be. But combine what he was, with what he has been and you get a good legacy.
5. I’m not trying to say Hov is the best. I just didn’t like your reasoning for being anti-Hov. B/c if we go by that and apply it fairly to all emcees, I don’t think we would come to a reasonable understanding of what makes up the greatest.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:09 am
1. As much as Hov might be a better rapper than Ye, I still think during ye’s career (2004-present), Ye makes better music than Jay (minus 808′s).
2. Pac > Nas
3. you mean death of autotune? lol.
4. Right, but you can’t look at 2 years of spitting at the top of the game in his long ass career and say he’s ALWAYS been one of the best spitters. Jordan adjusted and was still the best player even if he wasn’t dunking on everyone. I would say that Jay is still an allstar but he’s not the best (lyrics wise) and he hasn’t been in a while. (I’d say he’s only been spitting at the top of the game between 96-98 and then between 01-03.)
5. I actually think i’m more of a jay fan than you are (i just happen to admittedly analyze him tougher than most)
I’m not anti-hov in ANYWAY except for the fact that he’s apart of the corporate conglomerate that is bullying the ppl of brooklyn with the atlantic yards project.
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Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:17 am
“1. As much as Hov might be a better rapper than Ye, I still think during ye’s career (2004-present), Ye makes better music than Jay (minus 808’s).
2. Pac > Nas”
If you can subtract 808 for Kanye (which really wasnt a bad album, it just wasnt hip hop) then you can subtract Kingdom Come for Jay and at the very least the gap closes tremendously.
I hate to say it on the man’s birthday but as a rapper Pac might be one of the most overated ever. #yeaisaidit. Pac was a great social commentator and told great stories but when it comes to how he told those stories more is to be desired. His music wasnt heavy on metaphors or similes or wittiness. His flow didnt switch much. #kanyeshrug #happeeberphdeigh
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:22 am
1. I still take Kanye minus 808s over Jay minus kingdom Come. Though I agree it is closer.
2. Pac’s poetry trumps all.
Technically as a rapper he was good, though not great. Passionate spit, Poetry, and charisma is what makes Pac Pac and every1 else every1 else.
Ghostface Killah isn’t technically or metaphorically the best either, but his music and track record is still better than 90% of rappers.
Black Thought is another emcee who’s doper than most who doesn’t use as many typical metaphors or similies… but his compositions and rhyming is absurdly tight technically.
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Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:51 am
“Technically as a rapper he was good, though not great. Passionate spit, Poetry, and charisma is what makes Pac Pac and every1 else every1 else.”
This just makes him a really, obnoxiously good, passionate, charismatic poet and not a great rapper
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Dark as the Night that covers me Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:30 am
People will always keep bringing up BIG and Pac simply because they’re dead, and you’re nobody til someone kills you, right?
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streetztalk Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:38 am
Anyone who says Tupac was better than Nas is either a Stan or skims thru music
All Eyes on Me >>> though…
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
lol.
Pac is my favorite of all time because of the music he made, not necessarily based on rapping talent.
I think his music just connects with me. Until an artists makes more songs that I connect to on the level I connect with Pac’s I cannot lie about it.
My 2nd favorite of all time bounces between Black Thought and Nas, but normally leans closer to Black Thought. This makes Nas #3. Jay is in my top 10, not my top 5, tho.
Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
@ Guns
Then we should discern between best and favorite.
Just because you like someone doesnt make them the best. Imagine if we substituted Pac for Soulja Boy. Someone puts them on their top 5 b/c they personally like him, that person would get laughed out of life
My top 5 favorite basketball players of all time are Shaq, Ron Artest, Chris Childs, Charles Smith, Oakley & Mason tie for 5th. We all know that this isnt a collection of the best player, I just liked them the most.
Seattle Washington Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:55 am
The man speaks the truth and not just because I’m a Nasir Jones fan. Pac was a great commentator, motivator and poet, but as an emcee… He doesn’t hold a candle to some of the other greats. Happy Birthday though and much respect.
I’d also like to throw Blueprint 2 in there for questionable Hov albums. People like to skip over it just because it was a double album, but it was full of a lot of basura bro.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Song for song, I don’t know if “most greats” have as much music that personally motivates me the way 2pac does. Most don’t have a verse as potent as pac’s last verse on the song “Me Against The World”.
Remember.. Pac’s only great to me because of the songs he made rather than the rapping talent he exhibited. Much like Kanye come to think of it…
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
I respect that and that’s why I appreciate Pac. As a motivator and social commentator, he’s top notch. And that definitely has a part in hip hop.
However when folks say he’s the best rapper ever, I cringe.
Reecie Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
I agree with you on Pac, I’ve been calling him overrated for years. God bless the dead and happy birthday though!
the next overrated after Pac in my eyes is Wayne…
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Dark as the Night that covers me Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Co-sign on Wayne. I tried to keep up w/ him after The Carter 2, but he’s just lost me. The fact that in the rap game doing a bid gives you more credibility worries me, cuz I know when he comes home, he’s gonna be as crazy as ever and people are gonna eat it up.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
1)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeisCyJI0zc
I think its completely unfair to use that time period b/c you are purposely counting out the black album by a couple of months. Which was a better work that all of Kanye’s albums. And counts 2 plus years of no Hov albums. Plus Hov was still spitting crazy crazy doing his features. Ask Kanye how he got is @$$ handed to him during that same period.
2)stop that Pac talk. Mr Same Delivery. Mr Small Vocab. Pac aint even top five. He doesn’t even come close in terms of lyrical ability. How many different ways can u say the same thing.
3)yes I mean autotune. B/c if we go back one year.. YOU SAID that the game needed autotune and Hov was wrong to try to shut it down. Lucky for the game, Hov knew better and I can honestly say music is better than a year ago b/c of DOA. Don’t mock an accomplishment.
4)This is a valid anti Hov point. Its the one I agree with. However, I think he is a step above an all-star. He has been All-NBA since ’01, and lets be honest probably thru next year too. that is a decade of dominance to go along with those first years. This is a sport more like football with the high turnover rates.
5)I would not call you a fan of Hov. I would call you a hip hop fan and he has had such an important career that both you and him have to interact. But you don’t like him and if it wasn’t for the culture you would continue to listen to his new stuff. He would treat him more like Cormega. I dont know how people can say I’m not a Hov fan. I actually think me and Hov would be good friends if he ever got the honor of kickign it with me. I’m a big fan of his viewpoint and have made several positive Hov comments that have gotten side eyed from the crew. Including my arguement that Roc Boys is one of the best Hov songs ever and my point that Bp3 is lyrically a classic.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Whoa Whoa Whoa. I am a Hov fan. I drove from Ithaca to Hartford to try to make it to the Black concert.
I admit that i am OD harsh on jay.. and i think it’s because ppl around me are the OD jay stans who think everything he does is the best shit ever.
I agree with most of your points about what makes jay dope, it’s just that i refuse to turn away from the points that i don’t like about him.
maybe i do that in an effort to “maintain balance” or something.. i dunno.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
yeah but when I bought them tickets to see Hov at MSG the night TahTah pepperspray R Kelly you didn’t want to miss class??!
Admit Words, you hate Hov!
#unfinishedbusiness
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
no way cheekz! that concert was friday october 29th, 2004.. sr. year.. i didn’t have a friday class that woulda stopped me from making it. my reason musta been different.. and NO i didn’t lie to you then.
SaneN85 Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
This debate was kind of hot. Is that weird?
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
you mean hot sexually?
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SaneN85 Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Yep, but this conversation went from sexy to adorkable real quick.
yeah so i hate kobe. he’s a h*e. a b*tch in fact. his on court demeanor is that of a cry baby. i never liked him. colorodo and the fact that he dry snitched on shaq makes him a b*tch off the court. everyone just wants to forget that he raw dogged a complete stranger in the a$$. if that doesn’t speak for his integrity i just don’t know what does. let’s not forget he was married when this occurred. oh and in high school after a dunk he threw up the hooks. i’ll never forget that. b*tch.
now on to jigga my n*gga. who really has been better than jay in the last 10 years? i’ll wait around while you think of an answer. he’s the all time heavy weight champion of flowers. he leads the league in at least 6 statistical categories. best flow. most consistent. realest stories. most charisma. he sets the most trends and his interviews are hotter. c’mon we all know he bites (mainly Big) but who doesn’t?
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:48 am
ten years is a long time.
Ten years ago Weezy F was a joke and Hov’s biggest competition was a crack head who barked on record and Will Smith.
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MadScientist7 Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:33 am
nas, snoop, big pun, etc. c’mon he still had competition.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
10 years ago to the date..
Nas just realeased Nastradamus.
Big Pun died four months ago.
and Snoop Dogg was a No Limit Soldier.
He had no competition.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
unrelated to this, but cheekz, you’ve been horribly unfair to me acting like i’m the OD unfair and biased person.
You said that I never say anything bad about Ye.. but I’ve called out Kanye many times for shit.. like the gnarls barkley line, the dwayne wade line and my favorite “let up the suicide doors”… anytime he says some shit that don’t make sense I call it out!
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
lmao… remind me again. What was the Gnarls Barkley line?
lmao!
Let up them suicide doors. lol.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
“I’m like Gnarls Barkley, meets Charles Barkley”
i’m like WTF does that mean?
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MadScientist7 Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
even if he had no competition is that his fault. did you diminish he ’96 bulls for winning 72 regular season games and the title with no resistance. you can’t help who your comp is. don’t play down to their level. just dismantle them. now stop hating.
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The biggest thing with Kobe is his personality. He’s an unfiltered douche. MJ was/is the same way, but he had the ill PR team around him to shield all that dickishness. Two words – Space Jam. Kobe had that same candy shell until Colorado and dry snitching on America’s favorite player/character – Shaq. You can’t abuse a White woman AND take shots at one of White America’s favorite Black men and think you’re going to be fine after that.
He’s a great player, but I just don’t like him. And I think that’s the sentiment of most NBA fans. Now LeBron on the other hand…
As far as Jay goes, I respect dude a lot. He’s not my favorite rapper of all time, but he’s definitely in my top 10 and should be in the Hip Hop Hall of Fame whenever they start it. You can’t deny Hov’s talent even if he has become more of a business than an emcee. Folks say he’s dwindled lately, but I think Blueprint 3 was one of his more creative albums as far as the type of production he had. He’s almost transcended rap by pulling in more musical influences rather than just using a hot beat.
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Dark as the Night that covers me Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:21 am
What about the King? Expound Starbucks.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:37 am
LeBron has the Magic charm, astounding athletic ability, some decent acting chops and, biggest thing of all, a piece of America’s heart. They’ll love him entirely after he wins a championship. People want to root for LeBron. They want Cleveland to do well because they have never won a championship. Or they pray that he’ll come to their city. And New York City has tons of different religions, so I think we have a shot. Someone’s God has to hear us out.
In addition, LeBron has all these qualities at a time where life outside the court is just as big as on the court if you want to be a superstar. Nowadays a NBA player can flip his talents to become anything he wants to if he plays his cards right.
Kobe has a crappy hand, partly because of his own choices. I think he wanted to have more than just NBA records at a time, but he now realizes that door, and the window, are closed for him.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
I think your perspective on Lebron is influenced by some other information you told me yesterday.lol.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
LOL. Damn good point.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
good analysis seattle.
plus kobe and lebron didn’t have the same path. kobe played with shaq in his prime and came off as a brat when he wanted to be numero uno. lebron was #1 on his team since game 1 of his rookie season. i wonder how lebron wouldda acted having all the talent in the world but not really being able to showcase it because he had to share the spotlight with an older, more established star. Some ppl think he might have done similar things (especially after seeing how he didn’t shake any of Orlando’s hands after they beat the Cavs last year and how he was ‘distant’ in the game when they were eliminated this year)
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
hyperbole alert: I think that Hand Shake is the most over blown story in the history of pro sports.
I have seen so many players do that same thing.
Lebron seems to be a good teammate by all acounts and if Carlos Boozer didn’t get greedy this wouldn’t even be an issue. This is a guy who loves to share the ball and from what I can see… if TRYING to bring in another establish superstar. Remember he got on his hands and knees and begged Micheal Redd to come to Cleveland?
For a guy who has been pumped full of @$$ kissing since the age of 15, Lebron seems pretty level headed. I mean.. look at how Gary Coleman flew off the hinges, being a child star is rough.
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Dark as the Night that covers me Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Totally overblown. Didn’t Zeke and the rest of the bad boys walk off the floor back in like ’89 or ’90 after taking an L from Jordan?
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streetztalk Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Its still a b*tch move and bad sportmanship.
Zeke and em no different
Peyton Manning is no different for doing it in the SB this year…
You get beat, stand and cheer while the other fellow stars!
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Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Yo eff sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is something you do in pee wee when the game is fun. Its stupid to do as professional or collegiate athlete. Why am I shaking your hand? What does that mean? Are we friends now? Do i all of a sudden respect you? Am i happy that I had to lose so that you can win? GTFOHWTBS.
My philosophy, as a former collegiate athlete, is/was that if you’re on the other team I dont like you. Hell, if you’re on the other side of the ball, I dont like you. Dont try to be my friend, I’m not going to help you up, I’m going to talk sh!t about your momma, your baby, and your daddy. You ask these athletes and then you want them to just cut it off all of a sudden? Naw fam, when you really care about what you’re doing out there; when that sport is your craft, that’s just not happening
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Dark as the Night that covers me Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
I mean….that’s easy to say from the sidelines…and not to sound emo-cattish…but in the heat of the moment, I think emotions take over and the feeling of disappointment on such a grand scale probably contributes to those reactions. Esp in Peyton and Lebron’s cases…these are two cats that are the face of their leagues even though they don’t have that much hardware to show for it. This ain’t like losing a Madden tournament to someone…these cats entire lives have been dedicated to that moment just to come up short. They’re all in the same frat, so I’m sure they congratulate each other once they calm down and all that.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
agreed.
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I don’t understand why people just can’t appreciate greatness for what it is. Why does the of all time have to follow? No one is seeing either one of these guys right now….
At the end of it all, they will both be considered as one of the great’s in their respective fields no matter what the public perception is. Is that not good enough? Folks are so consumed with trying to decide’s who’s better than who, like there is a limit to greatness.
Kobe is one of the greatest basketball players, Michael Jordan is one of the greatest basketball players. Jay-Z is one of the greatest rappers, Tupac is one the greatest rappers. Is it so hard to just leave it at that?
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I hate Kobe for one reason; the way that some people love him. Yes he’s a great basketball player but b/c I compare him to Jordan or LBJ or Carmello, I should leave the room? GTFOHWTBS. Many of Kobe’s fans treat him as if he was God’s gift to basketball when in reality the game would still be quality w/o him.
And on to my on again off again favorite rapper of all time, William H Holla, Icebeg Slim, Jigga, Jay Peso, Shawn Carter. (I alternate between him and Big). I really cant see why people hate on him. Ppl say he’s too cocky but isnt every rapper in the game as cocky. Ppl say he’s fallen off but when you started off so much higher than everyone else is it really that bad to fall of a little? People like to argue that Jay wouldnt be big w/o the deaths of Big and Tupac (Happy Birthday). This is beyond false. They werent really competing for the same fan base (especially Jay and Tupac).
So let’s quell the hate and start to appreciate. In the words of Drake (whose album is growing on me and I heard moved 500K yesterday) “I never cried when Pac died. But I probably will when Hov does. And if my tears hold value, then i would drop one for every single thing he showed us. And I’ll be standing in a puddle.”
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Whether everyone likes Kobe and/or Jay Z is truly inconsequential; I don’t know if anyone else stated it but a hated king is still a king. Personally, I don’t care about either of them … I’m indifferent. Also … to hate someone is as strong of an emotion as love so those that hate Kobe or Jay Z, might as well love them!
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When Kobe first got big, I figured all the hate was because he was after Jordan. I mean all I heard about him was “he tryin’ to be like Jordan.” Folks don’t like when people fux with classics, even if they’re pretty good at it. But then, this other ish happened and well, I can understand. I don’t hate him, though. Just…indifferent. He can hoop though.
Jay-Z, I can’t hate Jay. How can you hate someone who looks like Joe Camel. That’s already a series of unfortunate events right there. Cut him some slack.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
I noticed early when Kobe jacked Jordan’s walk and gum-chewing style.. lol.
Mamba’s a monster tho.
.. and LOL @ Joe Camel.. the comparison will never not be funny to me…
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Cheekie Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
“I noticed early when Kobe jacked Jordan’s walk and gum-chewing style.. lol.”
lmao
Does Jay smoke? Because if Jay smokes, he wins at impersonations without even trying.
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SaneN85 Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
I’ve always wondered what it was about him that I couldn’t put my finger on. Thank you for putting words to it.
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QueenT Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
LOL….right!
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@ Peyso
About your “Best vs. Favorite” comment, I whole heartedly agree. I’ve been saying things a certain way sometimes to elicit a certain response.. partially because good conversations are good for hip hop and since preserving and promoting the culture are important to me, I do what I have to in order to do that.
I have an interesting view on Pac that I don’t expect most to have because you need to delve ALOT deeper than Pac’s popular music to feel what I feel about it… and i don’t expect people to do that.
However, I still think Pac deserves to be in the argument of greatest of all time… but it depends on how you break down what makes an emcee great. If you put too much weight on metaphors/similies you won’t realize why pac is dope.
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Dark as the Night that covers me Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
“…but it depends on how you break down what makes an emcee great.”
That’s a major issue when it comes to conversations like these because everyone uses different criterion to decide what makes an emcee great. There are no real measurables like in sports where stats can = greatness.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Nas had great technical game AND also great music and feel.
That is why he is better.
Point Black.
Nas is the greatest rapper or I’m not your friend anymore.
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
lmao @ that last line.
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SaneN85 Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
“Nas is the greatest rapper or I’m not your friend anymore.”
Damn it, CHeeKZ, why’d you have to ruin it with this line?
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The Honorable and Rather Articulate Award Winning RightCoastLexSteele, LLC, Dark as the Night that covers me Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
LOL…niiiiice.
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Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
“I have an interesting view on Pac that I don’t expect most to have because you need to delve ALOT deeper than Pac’s popular music to feel what I feel about it… and i don’t expect people to do that.”
I have. I even took a whole class on him and that’s why he’s one of my favorite/the best poets ever but not so much as a rapper
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
@Peyso.
Charles Oakley is too rough of a nigga to be in your top five.
He is going to get in a fight with the rest of the players in your top five. Than give them hard fouls when other players are trying to go to the hoop than walk away, put his hands on his hips, exhale through his nose and stair down the offical like it wasn’t a foul, but it was…
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Guns & Butter Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
lol at “too rough of a nigga”.
Oakley is def in my top 5 ballers of all time… and after watching some classic sports, Derek Harper might be in there too. His defense was immaculate.
Anyway, Peyso, I woulda loved to take (or teach) a class on pac, but probably woulda argued with the professor (or students) too much.. did they discuss any of the music found on the massive amount of bootlegs?
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Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
We examined Pac as a religious thinker. His viewpoints on God, women, the family structure. His upbringing and his own issues w/ authenticity. Talked about his mechanics as a rapper as well. I’m gonna look and see if I can find this syllabus from 7 yrs ago
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Please Excuse Your Significant Other Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
@Cheekz
“He is going to get in a fight with the rest of the players in your top five. Than give them hard fouls when other players are trying to go to the hoop than walk away, put his hands on his hips, exhale through his nose and stair down the offical like it wasn’t a foul, but it was…”
This is why he’s there lol
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Pac was cool and all but I think the controversy, his BS thug life image and his antics make up 70% of his legendary status and the other 30% the actual music.
As far as Jay-Z…..his appeal (at least for me) is that he has a practical approach to life, and knows how to make money. This resonates in his rhymes. I GREW UP listening to Jay-Z, and if you listen to his body of work, you will understand his sensibilites and why he is so successful.
hip hop is commercial now, there is nothing you can do about it. in every genre of music there is the shiny plastic version, and the grittier, more raw version. real music fans appreciate both for what they are… the shiny for moving the masses towards new things, and the gritty for staying legit and making music that means something… so you should certainly respect both.
i’ll skip my own analysis of jay’s music here, but i’ll just say this, at the very least the man demand’s respect. he’s big. he’s bigger than most people ever could think about being. it doesn’t come without costs and it definitely doesn’t come without hard work. say what you will about him as an artist or musician, but hands down we have never seen a better rap mogul.
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Damn, can’t believe I missed this great conversation. I know most wont read it, but I have to comment anyway.
First to Jay-Z. I don’t think he gets the same hate Kobe does. I don’t think he even belongs in this post. Everyone knows he’s the man. He’s not a business man, he’s a Business! Maaaaan!
Kobe – CAN’T.STAND.HIM. (I will not diminish his basketball skills, but yes, his personal shortcomings are too much to bear.) I liked him when he first came to the league. He took Brandy to his prom!
then his dumbass married Vanessa when she was in HS, didn’t get a prenuptial, pissed off his parents who didn’t even go to his wedding!I didn’t like the whole bickering back and forth with Shaq about “who’s team it was” I thought that was bitchassness at its finest. Then he started to demand being traded, bla bla bla, it’s like. Stop whining dude. Then he didn’t play in the 2004 Olympics because he was scared of terrorism? I guess.we damn sure wouldn’t have lost to Puerto Rico if he playedObviously the whole rape situation wasn’t favorable. I just thought he was stupid, but that didn’t affect my opinion of him…All in all, I guess I’m faithful to MJ, and if he skipped 3 years of college, his numbers would be even greater. I not a big fan of skipping college, even if you are Kobe Bryant, but that’s just my personal opinion…
Go Shuttlesworth!
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streetztalk Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
“All in all, I guess I’m faithful to MJ, and if he skipped 3 years of college, his numbers would be even greater.”
This comment holds a lot of assumptions
1) He wouldve still been drafted by CHI – Which is wrong to assume, especially with the classes of athletes that came out in the early 80s
2) Kobe didnt play like that in his first couple of seasons, so that’s irrelevant
3) MJs career couldve went left because he was coming into the NBA at the beginning of the renewed BOS-LAL rivalry and when the Sixers were diesel also
I could break it down more, but its dinner time.
In closing , I think a LOT of MJ loyalists choose to hate on Bean because he’s truly the closest to Jordan
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nyhoop Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Of course its speculative lol. His career could have gone left, or even further right! Maybe he would’t have broken his leg in his what, 2nd season? What if he didn’t retire twice? I’m not even going to go into a full MJ > Kobe analysis because I don’t feel like writing a dissertation, lol. I just mentioned that because I think Kobe getting those extra years while still young is a huge factor. He very well maybe the closest to Jordan, especially his performance in these playoffs. But that’s not why I don’t like him. Its for the reasons I previously stated. Truth be told, Scottie Pippen is actually my favorite player!
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