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Yo Black, What Can Brown Do for You?
Yea, I know it’s been a while people, but Slim gave me a 45 post suspension because one of my drafts tested positive for steroids. Now I’m back, and as usual not too happy.
I’m not going to bore you with the details of the recent happenings in New York politics right now. Long story short, a fat cat billionaire that doesn’t even live in NY has managed to exercise his will on their legislature in what some people view as payback. Apparently him and his GOP cohorts had been planning to straight jack the Democrats for control of the Senate for over 2 months. Richie Rich was unhappy because a lot of the Dems he had supported during their elections bids weren’t exactly responding to the crack of his whip now that they had power. Couple that with the lamest duck Governor in the history of American politics attempting to force a same sex bill through an unsupportive senate and unpopular gun control legislation on the agenda and you have chaos. New York has a long standing reputation for being the most dysfunctional state in the union when it comes to handling politics. For this particular chapter in NY history, Yours Truly has a front row seat. (Not like front row all the way up in front, but close enough).
While all the behind the scenes drama seems like it comes from your favorite prime time show, the most interesting twist actually borders on the black/brown divide. If you ask most black folk, latinos are like play cousins. Most of us probably grew up in neighborhoods with a wide array of latinos from a myriad of different Spanish speaking countries. The younger generation of blacks and browns seem to get along fine, but apparently that’s where the fun ends.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/nyregion/11racial.html?_r=2 -Just read it.
With all the talk of change sweeping the nation now that Billy Dee “I’m the only one that’s President” Obama is in charge, and the hope of racism and prejudice fading into the background, this serves as a harsh snap back to reality. A lot of the main players in this game are from the same borough, so one would think they’d play a little nicer with one another. But when it comes down to it, most Latinos are a lot more right leaning when it comes to issues and voting patterns, so maybe this shouldn’t have come as a big surprise. And…now that I think about it, black folks do have a tendency to make their issues as minorities seem like they are more important than another group’s problems. I guess this is what happens when you treat people like play cousins.
This may not be indicative of Black and Latino relations everywhere, but it definitely reeks of politics as usual. Or maybe it is and I’ve been too busy admiring girls wearing “Latinas do it better” shirts. Either way, I figured us black and brown folk would have a bit more camaraderie amongst us considering we share the same plight. But this seems more like the “crab in a barrell” syndrome that happens amongst blacks in our own communities. I think at this point in history we have a very unique opportunity to re-define race relations for generations to come. But if this is indicative of how things are going to go, then we will be stuck in the same position we are now…just with a black president.
So for today, what do folks think about the political alignment of Blacks and Latinos(as)? Is one group always trying to outdo the other? Are relations amongst the younger generation really that much better than the older folk with far leaning conservative/liberal views? Let’s hash it out.
On both sides of the aisle,
RightCoastLexSteele, Hopefully We Can
42 Responses to “Yo Black, What Can Brown Do for You?”
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I definitely think that black and Latino people should work together, but I don’t see that happening in the foreseeable future. Personally, I grew up in a predominantly Dominican area, and I have to say I have experienced more racism and prejudice from them than white people. These experiences have left me very apprehensive and very careful with my dealings with Latinos. Also, there are Latinos who do not share in our plight b/c they are in fact white or have been absorbed into whiteness so they are not confronted with similar issues.
I disagree that Black people act like our problems are the most important, we just might be more vocal about them considering we have been in this country longer. Not only are we vocal about our issues, but in general are supportive of others who share a similar plight, until they start to show out. I’m not going to give you a history lesson bc that would make my comment even more long, but research the history of black/Jewish relations, you’d be surprised to find that they weren’t always bad.
Other ethnic/racial groups have their issues and are not concerned with us and ours. Look at the current appointment of Sonya Sotomayor and how it has a lot of white people all up in arms. First, if had we had a Latino president, I doubt he or she would have cared to nominate a black person to position role. Further, the first few articles I read in her defense were from black people, specifically black women, when white folks first started with that “reverse racist” crap. I have even defended her to some of my white colleagues who were talking mess about her supposedly being “unqualified” and not being able to be “impartial,” as if being white automatically makes you impartial. However, when it is a black person being hung out to dry by white folks, Latinos typically side with the white folks.
Most of my clients have been Latino and I feel for them as a person of color and bc they are immigrants (if they are not Puerto Rican). I go out of my way for all of my clients, but I go beyond my position for the people of color. However, I know if it were me that needed the help from a Latino, they would probably be calling me the N word in their heads and not even care to help me beyond the bare minimum. (At least this has been the nature of my dealings with them thus far)
Sorry for the long response
Great post by the way.
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Cheekie Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Terrific comment, Remi! Although the whole “divide and conquer” theory is mostly attributed within Black culture, it’s most definitely going on within minorities in general, especially Latinos and Blacks. Imagine the power and clout we’d have in this country if we got together all Kumbaya-like. lol
Specifically the point I’ve noticed is the one you pointed out, Remi, in regards our support for them versus their support for us. It really makes me wonder why Latinos feel the need to rally with 2520s when those 2520s they’re rallying for truly don’t view them as any different or better than Blacks. They’re still minorities to them. Please don’t be fooled.
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CHeeKZ is working on two hours sleep Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 8:43 am
“but in general are supportive of others who share a similar plight”
Hmmmmmmmm…. after the way we failed to support Gay Marriage rights? I’m not feeling my people’s ability to act objectively.
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Remi Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 8:48 am
Thanks!!
I said “in general,” that doesn’t mean always. I’m not feeling that either. I think that issue is slightly different b/c people are getting caught up with so called “morality” and many people, not just black people, become illogically stubborn when it comes to those issues.
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
“If logic gets thrown out of the window, then it is illogical, which enhances my point.”
If that’s what you thought I just did, I think you missed MY point which was that religion & morality are not “logic” based forms. While throwing logic out the window may = following religion “blindly” to you, it may = following “devoutly” to others. We can have our opinions, but there really can be no argument there. There is a reason why the Church & State are distinct from one another.
& CheeKZ (sorry to throw u under the bus, hun) did implicitly compare the plights of blacks & homosexuals when he used the example of Black ppl not supporting Gay marriage in support of his argument that we don’t support “others who share a similar plight.” I didn’t take that out of context. You are right in that “effects” of discrimination know no color or sexual orientation, but the “plight” does. So in support of my founded inference, the circumstances that have led Black folks into our current condition are incomparable to any others – that is not to belittle other plights, but to acknowledge difference – including that of homosexuals.
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Ooooo, I hesitate to compare the black plight with the homosexual plight, & I don’t believe the majority of black folk would, me included. That is a loaded debate, tho, I’m sure so perhaps another blog entry could address it, but with the exception of the obvious – that being discrimination, which many other minority groups experience too – there is little that the black & homosexual plights have in common. After living & experiencing life on this earth for 26 yrs, & pursuing a degree in African America studies, hearing that comparison angers me actually.
Homosexuals don’t experience a “RACE” issue, an issue that has cemented black folk w/in the bottom rungs of our society (I will continue to digress if I don’t stop now)… & it seems that for many folks, black ppl included, their opinions of Gay marriage are more founded on “RELIGION,” a completely distinct & abstract sphere of thought. The religion argument can confuse the hell out of me at times too (I believe it loving, right & just & most Jesus-like to not judge & confer compassion onto even the least of us), but it’s not illogical at all… logic gets thrown out the window w/in the confines of religion & morality. It really isn’t fair to question our ppl’s ability to act objectively on the grounds of THIS debate.
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Remi Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 11:54 am
I don’t think anyone was comparing being homosexual with being black b/c race and sexuality are different things. However, as you stated both are groups that experience discrimination, and although discrimination can function differently the effects are similar and the feelings it invokes are similar as well. There was no comparison made btw black people and gay people.
“but it’s not illogical at all… logic gets thrown out the window w/in the confines of religion & morality.”
If logic gets thrown out of the window, then it is illogical, which enhances my point. However, I disagree that logic gets thrown out of the window within religion and morality. For some people maybe, but not everyone. Some people believe they can judge the actions of others b/c of religion and do so without question. Others do not see it fit to treat others differently just b/c of religion or “morality” (which is all relative). My comment was made about those who blindly follow religion and when it comes to religion, unfortunately, a lot of people just follow blindly and don’t think beyond what their pastor says during a sermon.
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
“Hmmmmmmmm…. after the way we failed to support Gay Marriage rights? I’m not feeling my people’s ability to act objectively.”
Ehhh, I’m with Rox on this one. I, too, hate this unfounded debate. Gay is not the new Black. Please read this article, of the same title, written by a Gay Black man: Gay is not the new Black
And if you don’t read it, here’s a thought-provoking snippet:
“The 40th anniversary of Stonewall dominated Gay Pride celebrations around the country, and while that is certainly a significant moment that should be recognized, 40 years is nothing compared with the 400 blood-soaked years black people have been through in this country…”
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ASmith Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
That was a great article; thanks for sharing.
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Seattle Washington Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Eh, I see the point Cheekz$$$ here is making to an extent.
Yes Civil Rights Movement and the Gay Rights struggle shouldn’t be compared. Time is one of those reasons. The fact that a gay man can hide his sexuality and I can’t hide my race is another. However, Black people have a tendency to be very rah rah about their own issues, both large and small, while being indifferent about others.
Prejudice and bias regardless of your religion or ethnicity is wrong. Folks need to realize that just because it isn’t happening to you, doesn’t mean it’s cool to just let it slide.
I also found it highly interesting that Black folks came out in droves to vote for Obama as a testament to breaking down barriers and bringing in a new chapter in equality, yet shot down that bill in California for equal rights for homosexuals. It does seem a bit hypocritical, no?
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
“…yet shot down that bill in California for equal rights for homosexuals. It does seem a bit hypocritical, no?”
Ehh…on the surface, it would seem like you’re making a decent point. But to that I say, again, read the article. Here’s the part that addresses that:
“When Proposition 8 passed in California, white gays were quick to blame the black community despite blacks making up less than 10 percent of total voters and whites being close to 60 percent. At protest rallies that followed, some gay blacks reported they were even hit with racial epithets by angry white participants. Not to split hairs, but for most blacks, the n-word trumps the f-word.
So while the white mouthpiece of the gay community shakes an angry finger at intolerance and bigotry in their blogs and on television, blacks and other minorities see the dirty laundry. They see the hypocrisy of publicly rallying in the name of unity but then privately living in segregated pockets.”
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Seattle Washington Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
True. But just because they don’t make up a majority doesn’t excuse the fact that they didn’t vote for the proposition in the first place. That’s like someone using the fact that they live in a Red State as why they didn’t vote for Obama in the presidential election.
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 11:36 am
“Not only are we vocal about our issues, but in general are supportive of others who share a similar plight, until they start to show out.”
It’s the story of the Black/Jewish divide, the Black/Irish divide, the Black/Chinese divide…& yes, even the Black/Latino divide.
I remember when I was at Duke, a publication came out that polled Latino opinion in the Carolinas, and as a whole, the demographic claimed to identify more with whites than with blacks. My thoughts? White ppl will never accept you!!! Throughout history, Black ppl have accepted all new immigrant classes, showing’em the ropes. As soon as these groups became hip to white perception, they did everything in their power to dissociate themselves from their black counterparts… it’s seemingly no different for Latinos.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
1)Throughout history, Black ppl have accepted all new immigrant classes, showing’em the ropes….. really? Included the Irish v Black riots in Boston? Or the violence between blacks and eastern europeans over cheap labor in Chicago?
2)White ppl will never accept you!!! …give white people a break. They accepted Irish and Italians. Latinos have a shot.
3)40 years is nothing compared with the 400 blood-soaked years black people have been through in this country…” but gay people have been getting it up the ass from Judah/Christian society since Sadom and Gamoura……… PAUSE! lmao. I’m not going to downplay any discrimination. Which leads to my last point…
4)Why down play any discrimination. I get mad when I see police brutality and mad when I see gay hate crimes. They are both ignorant, who cares where the ignorance comes from and how the ignorance effects the constituents. Last I checked white people used religion to justify discrimination against us…which is why I say the hell with that stupid book.
ok I lied last point:
” … {religion}a completely distinct & abstract sphere of thought.”
ummmmmm isn’t race also abstract? We as humans came up with these labels based on skin color.
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Remi Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Actually Cheekz, when the Irish first came to the Americas they worked as indentured servants with black Africans and were too referred to as “black.” They were accepted by black people. It wasn’t until they were absorbed into “whiteness” that they began to distance themselves from black Africans. You have to go further back into history for that one.
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Joey Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
#3 and #4 are true… Gay people have been getting cricified since day 1. Goes back to the Biblical days, and even the term “faggot” actually means “a bundle of twigs” because they used to burn men at the stakes when they were caught partaking in homosexual acts.
I agree that gays and blacks do not have similar plights, but no 2 groups of people have similar plights. I think the original point being made is that we are all up in arms about discrimination and prejudice, but sometimes we black people can do just as much discriminating as anyone else – just not toward the same groups of people. And we justify it by saying it’s “in the name of religion” but then again, so was slavery and racism in the first place…
ummm, yeah. i’ll get back to this.
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Yeah, I believe that race is completely abstract too – at least it was. Race was constructed to fulfill an agenda… & it worked! As of July 20, 2009 tho, race is no longer abstract, hunnie. Despite race mixing (which almost proves that it isn’t real), Race is here to stay.
& Yes! Why would I make an unfounded point? I’m unfamiliar with the situation in Chicago, but Boston is where Black folk & Irish folk first lived in harmony for years, until the Irish recognized that they looked no different than their “white” counterparts, & felt they should be treated as such. Once they did, the rioting ensued – they had to fight for their whiteness & the privileges that come with it. The Chinese enslaved alongside Blacks to work the railroads, same story. Even light skinned blacks tried to pass. Whiteness was power. But it’s hard to deny strong & beautiful black features.
“Give white ppl a break” Hahaha. Never! & my daddy is white, & even he understands. Don’t you watch Fox news?
& lastly, descrimination is descrimination & it’s disgusting. There should be no tolerance for it period. I do, however, think black ppl have seen the worst of it. Native Americans too, but at least those who remain have been able to maintain their cultural identity within their reservations. Many American Blacks feel as tho they’ve been stripped of even that, especially in light of the strong cultural presences that African, Caribbean & even Latino immigrant groups have been able to carry with them into this country.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
wait… Dog. Did you just make today a historical date? So are you guys giving up on MLK’s dream?
Rupert Murdock isn’t even American born, he shouldn’t count as White American evil.
Stop trying to prove to me black people have had to worst… b/c that would mean you are comparing. And this whole arguement started b/c they weren’t suppose to be comparable. Atleast we were Kings in African, gay people were never Kings… just queens (sorry I can’t resist). And talk about comparisons… Native Americans are lucky to be on reservations? Compared to us? Really?! They are dead! Dead!
And the history is a little slighted to make black people look good. The majority to Irish did not come as indentured servants, though a good portion of indentured servants were Irish. To go back to the days before mass immigration is missing the point.
This love fest between the Irish and Blacks was it before or after they came off the boats during the Potatoe Famine and refused to join the Northern Army and fight for some ninjas? I’m not saying they didn’t fight for their white…but they weren’t in some alliance with blacks.
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There’s lots of stuff at play here…
I think black folks main problem is that we think all of our problems are the same for all minorities, rather than that it’s more important. We champion our issues very loudly and then get confused when we look back and not all minorities are backing us up. If we want them to care about our issues we need to care about theirs; however…
I also think that it’s not our job to champion anyone’s issues but our own. I think we need to be supportive, we need to be attentive, we need to be helpful, but for another minority group (any minority group) to expect us to pick up their banner when we can barely hold up our own is too much. Just because we’ve been the second longest persecuted minority group (folks slick forget about Native Americans) doesn’t mean we know how to work this system any better than anybody else (hell, it’s OBVIOUS we don’t know) we need help just as much as the next group.
When it comes to liberal vs. conservative leanings… if black folks got honest with themselves, especially older black folks, a lot of us would probably be surprised at which political leaning we more closely identify with, on the issues. Problem A is that we’re not educated on the issues enough to even know how we feel while other groups make it their business to be.
Latinos have hella lobbyists groups. What do we have? The outdated NAACP? The Congressional Black Caucus? If we’re holding out that a black President is all we need to make our issues matter to legislators, we’ve lost our damn minds.
I also agree with Remi. Black folks were the first ones up in arms about the white response to Sotomayor, black blogs were the only ones I saw that were commenting on that case in TX where a bunch of white guys beat the mess out of a Hispanic for being an “illegal immigrant” and when he died the racist
(enter expletive)got off with assault or something lame like that. I’m sure there were Latino voices out there, but they weren’t louder than the Black ones. What’s up with that?We can’t be capain save-a-race when we can’t save our own.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Good comment. I concur on a lot of what you said. The NAACP and Black Caucus definitely aren’t what they used to be. Come to think of it, I can’t think of anything else for Black folk…
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 11:53 am
“I also think that it’s not our job to champion anyone’s issues but our own. I think we need to be supportive, we need to be attentive, we need to be helpful, but for another minority group (any minority group) to expect us to pick up their banner when we can barely hold up our own is too much. Just because we’ve been the second longest persecuted minority group (folks slick forget about Native Americans) doesn’t mean we know how to work this system any better than anybody else (hell, it’s OBVIOUS we don’t know) we need help just as much as the next group.”
YESSSSSSS
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“Are relations amongst the younger generation really that much better than the older folk with far leaning conservative/liberal views?”
Hell.tothe.NAH!!!
What may be the status quo in the NE or NYC is definitely not reflective of our nation’s. I’m not sure how many east coasters are familiar with the happenings on the west coast (my family spans from LA to Seattle, so I hear it all), but the Black-Latino relationship is BAD. Worse than you could probably imagine, & it’s probably the WORST among our younger generations – the bloods & crypts aren’t the only bad boys running the streets out there. The Latino gangs are having a heyday reeking havoc; they even scared black kids from going to school on Cinco de Mayo (http://www.lacitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/?id=2608&IssueNum=119).
Illegal immigration is of HUGE concern out there too, and recent rallies have divided the two even farther, especially between the respective younger & most vocal generations.
Whether young or old, conservative or liberal, these social problems are what’s ultimately driving the political ones. Without significant change, I see little room for alignment which is truly unfortunate. A united voice could be truly powerful…
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ASmith Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
There’s a gang in LA that’s mission is to exterminate black folks. My mouth fell open when I read about them, but it’s because we all continue to believe that black and Latinos get along everywhere everyday. Not true.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/61950
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This was a reply to Rox…Oops.
I actually agree. I hate when people make those types of comparisons. It is not the same. However, there are just similarities in discrimination in general that although I don’t feel black people need to align ourselves with the gay struggle, we shouldn’t be so quick to counter them. The same white people who are staunchly against gay marriage are the same who discriminate against black people. Do not get it twisted.
One of my friends had a rude awakening one day when she was having a conversation with a white guy at work and one of her friends. They all didn’t support gay marriage, among other things. Then he started to say things about gay people that made them uncomfortable. Well, somehow they got to race and he started talking about affirmative action and he got pretty comfortable with them b/c of the prior conversation about gay marriage and started to say some pretty racist stuff that he assumed they were okay with b/c of the previous conversation they had about gay people. She called me afterwards b/c she was shocked. What she realized was that if someone can be feel that way about anyone not having equal access to certain things, they can feel that way about other people. I think a lot of black people need to take heed to that. We are still not allowed access to many things, and I don’t think we should support blocking access to any other groups based on immutable characteristics. You could end up supporting a bill or law of some sort that could end up screwing black people in the end as well.
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Absolutely. The argument gets muddy where Black ppl who don’t believe in homosexuality are concerned – they have a right to that belief, but I agree with you 100% here.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Booooooooooooooooooo Boooooooooooooooo
So the Mormon’s have a right to believe that the only way I get into heaven is by being a slave?
So Jews have the right to believe they are justified to bash the heads of their enemies’ children on the rocks like the Torah suggest they do (I know it says that somewhere it will take me a while to find where..)
So you want to burn me at a Stake b/c of my beliefs Rox? Really?!
Booooooooo. If you religion tells you something ignorant than you need to wake your scary behind up.
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Wait, I’m confused CheeKZ
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Mannnnn, I think u have taken most, if not all, of my comments way out of context.
1) I did not intend to suggest religion being used to “justify” a thang. What I have said is that I believe ppl do have the right to base their opinions on the teachings of their faiths. There may be a fine line, but there is a difference. I def agree w/ u that inhumane acts performed in the name of religion is absolutely atrocious – I would never want to burn u at the stake homie :-/ The state also holds ppl accountable for their actions whether founded upon religion or not – we do have the opportunity to challenge some of these practices. But are you saying that religion should have no bearing on what ppl believe to be righteous or just?
2) We are not comparing plights or methods of discrimination. What we are comparing are the effects, & that brings me to #3…
3) Yes, I believe Native Americans had it & still have it BAD. My grandmother is straight up pure Cree Indian; I wouldn’t disrespect my heritage by belittling the decimation they faced. I do, however, think it significant (I never said lucky) that many tribes have been able to preserve their culture within the confines of their reservations, & I do envy that b/c we can’t say the same for American Blacks. I’ll be the first person to say that I don’t believe that desegregation was the answer nor has even worked well – I’d even go as far to say that it worsened things in some regards (& I’d be delighted to engage in a dialogue about that). What we got as a result of the discrimination against us is an unconsciously unhealthy idolization of whiteness & self hate (for example, http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2919.shtml), black on black violence, a lack of identity & solidarity, 1/3 of our men imprisoned, 40% of our women unmarried, single-parent households, underaged pregnancies, poverty, an increasing prevalence of HIV/AIDS… the list goes on. So YEP, in this country, I think we got it the worst.
& just for argument’s sake, 4) I bet hella Kings & Queens have been homosexual… The #1 reason we argue against comparing the black & gay experience is because one is about race – the other sexual orientation. One is ever-apparent, the other can be concealed. How do we know that Kings & Queens spanning the whole spectrum, from black to white & everything in between, weren’t homosexual?
5) We OD digressed.
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Real talk, Hispanic can be some of the racist people toward blacks. I’m black and Hispanic, and I can say from experience that a lot of my family is racist toward blacks and try to tell me I’m “the exception” because I’m family. My mom was disowned when she first married my Dad; the irony in all this is that my Dad and my siblings are the most educated, wealthy, and “cultured” out of almost everyone in my family, and yet they want to tell me about black people being ghetto and lazy and stupid. Awesome.
Anyway, I do think we see Hispanics as our “play cousins” a lot more than they see us. And we bear their cross a lot more than they ever would ours. I like to think of it like high school. If a bunch of nerds or whatever unpopular were together and someone came and picked on one of them, the rest would try to defend or support their fellow nerd. But the minute the popular kids start treating the “maybe could pass as normal” nerd as somewhat equal, that nerd starts acting brand new like to their old friends who used to have their back. Because they waited all their lives to be popular, and dont want to mess it up by cosigning with the other nerds.
So basically what I’m saying is that white people really have it mastered that they can let Latinos/Asians/etc. (people who “might could pass as white-ish”) into the “in crowd” just enough so that they look down on blacks and don’t take up for them in the fight, when really they don’t see them as equals, nor do they really want them around. They can just tolerate them enough to gain some votes and get some support for the laws and policies that affect blacks. It’s unfortunate.
We really should all be in this together. Cuz in a lot of places (like NY, LA, DC, etc) MINORITIES are the majority.
Damn the man!!!
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Rox Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
“So basically what I’m saying is that white people really have it mastered that they can let Latinos/Asians/etc. (people who “might could pass as white-ish”) into the “in crowd” just enough so that they look down on blacks and don’t take up for them in the fight, when really they don’t see them as equals, nor do they really want them around. They can just tolerate them enough to gain some votes and get some support for the laws and policies that affect blacks. It’s unfortunate.”
Just had to cosign right quick.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
“Damn the man!”
Co-sign. I’m more so damning the man for blocking people from Three Ways.lol.
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Cheekie Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Me, too, Slim.
Oh, and this, Joey…
“So basically what I’m saying is that white people really have it mastered that they can let Latinos/Asians/etc. (people who “might could pass as white-ish”) into the “in crowd” just enough so that they look down on blacks and don’t take up for them in the fight, when really they don’t see them as equals, nor do they really want them around. They can just tolerate them enough to gain some votes and get some support for the laws and policies that affect blacks. It’s unfortunate.”
…is spot the hell on.
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I’m sorting through the comments, but I just have a few quick points before I have to get back to work…
1.) Latino people remind me of the Italians and Irish immigrants back in the day. Someone else brought up the point of how the Irish were also categorized as “niggers” & identified with Blacks as they were once called until they realized that they bore the same skin tone as the Anglo Saxons. After that they used it as leverage to be “somewhat accepted into the mainstream American culture. While the Italians didn’t blend with the Black community, it took them awhile to be accepted into the White America fold. Not for nothing, I can see that happening in the near future with someone Latinos.
2.) I say some because while there are a few friends of mine that identify more with their African roots or the African American culture, I know others that will be quick to segregate themselves from Black people. I know a cat that will throw on the ill American accent in front of White people only to reveal to me later in confidence that he is truly Latino. There are many more like him in today’s society. And they can “pass” because of their skin tone and ambiguous last name.
3.) It does also have to go back to issues. Latinos are more religiously & socially conservative. So it doesn’t surprise me that folks in NY are going across the aisle when Latinos in the Florida and middle America have been doing it for a little while now. Even though it does seem like more of a power move. Just because Black folks are stereotypically Democrat doesn’t mean other minorities will follow suit, case in point Asian people.
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CHeeKZ Money Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
heard u were in NY this wknd… you couldn’t stop by the video shoot?
You too good for rap music now?
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Seattle Washington Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Had to be a family man for a day. And you know rap music doesn’t promote that sort of thing.
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
“Had to be a family man for a day”
Dag, if I didn’t know any better, I’d think you got a wife and kids…lol
BUT…i know better
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Yea, I think identification is a huge thing, too. No matter how minority they seem, many Latinos I know will quickly identify with others more than us.
Quick story: There was a gospel concert yesterday that I and a few other folk were a part of. While preparing for sound check, we noticed this 2520 sitting in our “reserved seating” section. I tried to be PC in asking who she was, so I was like “who is that girl, right thurr…” This chick in our group, who’s straight up Puerto Rican, right from the Boogie down was like “Who, the White girl? ::chuckle:: I can say that, cuz I’m White ::chuckle::” I was like worrrrd? Didn’t know that…
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I’m late again per usual.
As the daughter of miscegenation b/w a Black son of the South and a Puerto-Rican hija of the Caribbean, my outlook is a bit different from those hereby presented. My mother’s genes dominated my dad’s so though I spent the majority of my childhood in a black household with a black extended family, my look is most definitely Latina, and that is all I’m perceived to be.
Not complaining, but it has definitely given me a front row seat to hurtful discrimation from the darker side of my ancestry. I’ve been privy to being the target of slurs & inane stereotypes, and it’s been excused/considered acceptable by some b/c Af-Am history has oppression that rivals none other (excluding Native Americans, of course).
Latinos that have been drafted into “White Heaven” represent a smidgen of Latinos as a whole. Just like lighter-skinned African-Americans are more palatable to White American so goes the same for Latinos. Yet Latinos, by & whole, are darker than what is shown in society. And to provide historical insight as to why Latino (Hispanic, specifically) has become synonymous with White, you have the US Census Bureau to thank for that. Prior to 1970, the only Latino race represented on the Census was Mexican. Hispanic was then added, and if a Latino still checked Other and wrote in their nationality, it was reclassified as White.
Yes, Latinos have lobbyists, but what minority does not? And I must refute that Black blogs were the first to articulate on Sotomayor. She’s been dominant on Latino blogs since Souter announced his resignation.
It seems to that the NAACP occassionally forgets that Latinos, Asians, etc. are colored as well. And I will admit that with Black Americans, it seems to be you’re either with us or against us. Most Latinos are Catholics, and the Republican Party’s stances align most closely with theirs. Yet they did turn out in droves to support Obama, eh? And I saw the rallies for immigration. I didn’t see too many Black faces.
I’m not pointing fingers, just stating that the blame goes both ways. Every minority, group, sect is guilty of promoting & focusing on their own agenda, and that is exactly what is occuring in the NY Senate. It’s not productive; it’s quite detrimental; and it will gain neither group any ground.
(Apologize for the length.)
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Slim Jackson Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Hi Reina,
Thanks for dropping by today. Better late than never…unless you had to go buy a prego test.
Good perspective though. I was waiting for someone to chime in that lives on both sides.
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ASmith Reply:
July 20th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I like that you were able to speak from both sides and you bring up good points.
As for having lobbyists — from my perspective my comment on lobbyists was a jab at black folks, not Latinos. Latinos have pleny of lobbyists who are VERY effective (I know…) but black folks don’t. The NAACP should, but they don’t. They’d rather be in the media for frivolous things; we have the CBC and though they aren’t lobbyists, they’re nothing special; Hispanics have the CHC. My point was that we want our issues to matter to other people “just because” instead of taking a cue from other minorities who are like forget “just because” how about I make this make sense for you in your language (i.e. money — and I don’t mean they pay people off, I mean in the halls of Congress, if you ain’t talking in numbers, you ain’t talking… I know…)
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Sometimes, I don’t really feel animosity towards immigrant groups that come to this country and do what they have to do to make it. I just wish that we as black people would also do the same sometimes.
History has proven time and time again that other people do not always have our best interests at heart. While I think it is great when other groups show support for our causes, I also realize that they may be doing it for their own benefit more than any other reason (many other minorities realize that if the door opens for a black person, it will surely be open for them. However, this is not true vice versa).
I sometimes think that where we have gone wrong is we started believing what the media feeds us about “prejudice becoming extinct.” It seems to me that black people were doing better as a people when we understood that others weren’t for us, than we are now- “surprised that racism still exists” and blind sided when groups show partiality towards their own.
I feel we make the mistake when we are so quick to champion the causes of other groups without first examining their full agenda. Its almost equivalent to being treated like a whore- someone arrives and tells you everything you want to hear and seems to relate, but as soon as they can get something “better” they treat you like garbage. However, no one can treat you like this unless you first allow it.
I’m not saying that we should never form alliances with other groups, but i do think we should be wise enough to examine whether or not they will return the favor and make sure that we are getting something in return. And if it looks like their not going to hold to the alliance, then the only thing we need to give is the same lip service.
One of my favorite quotes in the Bible says you should be “as wise as a serpent and as gentle as a dove” (matthew 10:16) What it all comes down to is this: I would never treat other groups of people unkindly or without respect. But at the same time, I’m not going to blindly believe that just b/c we may share similar struggles that they automatically have my back.
For those of you who don’t believe in bible verses, think of it this way:
In the animal kingdom, predators are known to travel in packs and fight over territory or food with other predators.
TRUTH: Human beings are the #1 predators on the planet, and it makes no difference what country they come from. I don’t see the problems between blacks and latinos as a racial problem as much as its a human nature problem (even though white supremacy also has a part in it). While the idea of everyone living in “harmony” sounds nice in speeches I don’t know if this is enough to combat thousands of years of evolutionary practice our ancestors engaged in; practices that often pitted tribe against tribe and nation against nation; the same evolutionary practices that cause women to hate on one another for no reason to this very day (but that’s another topic).
Again, i’m not saying we should all start treating each other in brutal fashion, but I do think that as a group of people we should remember there is no evidence to support the idea that human beings are just inherently selfless and fair-minded. If there are blatant acts of racism or violence, you should do everything in your power to combat it, but in the end, you can’t change group politics.
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