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You Are Not My Mother
I love you momma!
I originally wrote this post for Blogxilla.com back in October of 2008. My writing has evolved since then, but I wanted to share this with the 3 Ways Fam. Hope you enjoy.
I’ve heard women say they can learn a lot about a dude by how he treats his mother. This somehow sheds light on how he would treat a lady friend in the context of a relationship. Ya boy disagrees. There are so many variables that go into how one treats his mother that it’s almost impossible to get a real idea of how he’s gonna treat a woman based on his actions toward the one that birthed him. But for the sake of discussion, let’s use my interaction with momma dukes as an example.
I treat mom as best as I can. When she calls, I answer no matter where I am even though I live in a different city. When I make trips home, I do whatever I can in the 2 days that I’m there because she doesn’t have a car and takes a bus or cab everywhere (Upstate NY…no cows). I make her laugh and I try my best to make her life easier. After more than 2* years of providing for me and ensuring I always had what I needed, she deserves the reciprocity. I think that’s partially what havin’ kids is about. However, women who see how I treat moms shouldn’t get it twisted. There is a pretty good chance they won’t even get close to the same treatment unless they’ve passed the Slimography exam and earned the “put a ring on it” award. At that point, the lucky lady has proven herself worthy of receiving the treatment similar to, but not greater than, that which I show my mother. And yes, I did say prove herself worthy. My utmost affection, just like my trust, needs to be won. Simple as that.
To put it another way, because a man treats his mom well doesn’t mean he’ll treat you well. He’s developed a relationship with his mom over the years and she’s done a lot for him. He loves his momma for all of this. He doesn’t necessarily love you. If you want that treatment from a dude, it needs to be earned over time. On the flip side, just because a dude doesn’t treat his moms well doesn’t mean he’ll treat you like booty bunz. Who knows why the dynamics with his moms are somewhat unpleasant or downright effed up. Maybe he came home early from school as a child and saw mom with the mailman while pops was at the construction site earnin’ that check. His father was out there layin’ brick while someone was layin’ pipe. I’m sure that could scar a young lad for life.
But regardless ladies, since I’m primarily talkin’ to you, don’t put too much into figurin’ out how a dude treats his mother. This is assumin’ you even get the chance to meet his mom (stay tuned). Do what you need to do and you’ll get the treatment you deserve. And yes, it really is that simple.
Slim “I really don’t love you” Jackson
So that was the post folks. What do you think about this concept? Does it hold validity? Any other factors at play? Was I just a “tell it like it is” a$$hole that didn’t know what he was talkin’ about? Let’s discuss…without callin’ me an a$$hole.
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I think there is some validity to your argument. I know dudes who are mama’s boys, who love their mother and treat her with the utmost honor and respect. However, when it comes to other women in general, they are very disrespectful, sexist, chauevnistic, misogynistic, and/or every other word to show that he really doesn’t like women that much. It really is weird to see in practice. But, I think the fact that those men are mama’s boys may have something to do with their lack of respect for women generally.
However, I do know men who are honorable and respectful to all people until those people show themselves to be undeserving of respect. In that sense, if he loves, honors, and respects his mother, there is a greater chance that he is a loving, honorable, respectful man himself, and his treatment of his GF will exhibit those qualities to an extent. He won’t have the same type of L,H,R for the GF as he does for his mother, but is should exist in some form in order for him to have a healthy relationship with the GF.
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N.I.A. naturally Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 12:50 am
yay!! this is my first time popping the three ways cherry…whoohoo!!
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I think if a man treats his mother really poorly, that’s a red flag but not indicative of how he’ll treat you. A woman probably wants to get underneath the history a little bit to see where his head is at where women are concerned.
My ex’s mother was a nightmare, stole from him, had to get bailed out of jail, forged his name, all sort of nonsense so he though definitely took care of her, he kept her at arm’s length. He treated me incredibly well right up until…. well, that’s a whole other post.
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Dang why am I still up?
Nehoot you bring up a good point in your post. “He’s developed a relationship with his mom over the years and she’s done a lot for him.” Relationships take time to grow. You don’t get all the perks of a relationship from day one of dating. Jobs have that 90 day probation period for new hires, so do relationships. A man will of course will be on best behavior in the beginning. But the “mama treatment” comes later.
I also co-sign to a lot of what N.I.A. said. I do think the way a man treats his mother is a good indicator of how he might treat you if y’all (yes I am country) do indeed get close to that level of a relationship. Mind you, it might not be exactly the same as with his mother. After all she did give birth to him. But it will come pretty close. If a dude only talks to his mom when he needs her for something, that too might be your plight in life. But if he truly treats her like a queen and worships her, you might just get a taste of that goddess status too.
I hope this post makes sense. It’s late, I need sleep, time for bed.
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I’ve never agreed with this statement 100%. I could never figure out what one had to do with the other. I mean after all she gave birth to you, took care of you, whooped your tail when need be and made you respect her…she will always be your mama so to treat her the way she taught you to treat her isn’t indicative of how you will treat another woman.
If he is respectful and raised that way then so be it, but even still that isn’t indicative of the level of respect he’ll treat you with if you don’t “deserve” it.
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I think a man has a harbored contempt for his mother, it can be an INDICATOR of all relationships with women.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 8:20 am
@Nicki Sunshine: I was figuring someone might say this at some point today, but eff it. I’ll mention it now.lol.
Some would say Eminem is a good example of this. His painful, yet artistically crafted, “diss track” to Mariah has been touted as an example of his issues with women and many are linking it back to his mother. What say folks on this as well?
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Hmmm, I don’t think his situation was due to his mama (although I have been wrong before)… .I think in his situation, he took offense to that track that she wrote, Obsessed… they prolly really did have a relationship at one point and from her track, she’s making it seem like they never did- he’s just stalking her.
So I think that may have been the motive for him going so hard.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 9:06 am
I once saw a movie about a serial killer, that was based on a true story…. and now I can’t think of the name but it was old, like in the 70s….. But anywho, he thought his mama was a wh*re and hated her, so that made him pretty much angry with all women- all of his victims were women. He was charming, so he’d date them and would just up and kill them bc he had so much anger for his mom.
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N.I.A. naturally Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 9:10 am
I saw a similar movie about Ted Bundy, but I don’t know if that’s the one you’re talking about. There seems to be a lot of serial killers with mother issues.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 9:31 am
I think it might be it… I’ve seen so many movies about them. I thought the one I was talking about had a weird relationship with his sister!
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ASmith Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 10:49 am
I think Em does have issues with women because of his relationship with his mother. I think something like what Mariah did would’ve been taken differently coming from a guy.
Given what he says his mother did to him, he could be a lot worse, but he still has, IMO, some deep-seated issues with females that springs directly from his relationship with his mom.
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Cheekie Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Well, he does seem to have an issue with women in general, like his off-and-on (are they off or on currently?) lady Kim. Remember that track about him killing her or some ish? That mofo is nuttier than a PayDay. I’d say he has mommy issues.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
MAN!!! Now that issue with KIM was definitely deep rooted.. didn’t he have a song about killing her? And her dumb A went back to him.
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I feel the complete opposite of this.
I always think that a man will treat me differently than he treats his mom because he has reserved those feelings exclusively for her.
I observe how a potential boyfriend acts with his mother to gauge how receptive he’ll be to my closeness with my father.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 9:18 am
“I observe how a potential boyfriend acts with his mother to gauge how receptive he’ll be to my closeness with my father.”
That’s an interesting perspective. I actually made that “hmph” enlightened sound.
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There is something very real and true about this post…
When talking to an interest of mine he definitely (while Mom was also present) was like my mama is my first love…my everything and really no one is ever gonna compare…I couldn’t even be mad!
I also think (much like Dr. Sunshine) that men who have issues from the beginning (like Eminem) don’t do well with women period or one’s that were rejected early in life…I’ve been reading how they stalk women and sh*t…so I’d rather you love your mama but don’t be sleepin with her…
And that ladies and gentlemen is a different story for a different day!
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I wouldn’t look at the way a man treats his mother and be sure that’s how he would treat me, but like Nicki says, it can be an indicator (I think either way — poorly or excellently) of where you might be headed.
If you can’t treat your own mother right (assuming she’s no serial killer or abusive) then what can you do?
It’s also not just about the way he treats her, but how she treats him and what sort of relationship they have. Is there a healthy relationship or is it too co-dependent one way or another? Even if he’s a great son on the surface, if he’s too much of a mama’s boy, my concern is that I’ll never live up to either his or his mother’s expectations because all I can do is be ASmith and ASmith ain’t got no kids.
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I agree with ASmith and Nicki. You def don’t want a super mama’s boy. He needs to be able to ascertain that our relationship will not be the same as theirs. Never will be. I also look at how a man treats STRANGERS. males and females for that matter. if you are totally rude to people you encounter in public, without being provoked for any reason, you gets a serious side eye from me.
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Healthy familial relationships are good, but never a guarantee to how other folk will be treated.
I also agree that unhealthy relationships with parents could be an indicator for deeper possibly unresolved issues.
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I love my momma (as we all should) but I’m far from a mommas boy. Having said that, I agree to an extent with Slim’s post. I don’t think its fair for women to assume they’d get the same or > amount of love from a dude that he gives his mother. In fact its a different type of love to me. The child learns to love family from their parents and in turn loves their mother for the nurturing, providing, and care (especially if she was a single mother).
My mother always told me that a woman will see how I treat my sisters and her and automatically correlate this behaviour to how I’d treat her. That stuck in the back of my mind and made me cognizant of my actions towards my family.
While in fact you may treat a woman opposite of how you treat family, in appearance this can be even more compelling.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 10:10 am
I think someone mentioned yesterday or Monday that the relationship they had with their parents had all sorts of effects on their relationships…or lack thereof. Good points Sir Streetz.
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Streetz Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 10:21 am
thank ya kindly!
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Joey Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Streetz… I wanted to comment earlier but the man kept me down as always.
I agree 100% and was actually gonna say that I don’t usually gauge how a man treats me by how he treats his Moms (cuz I don’t like Mama’s boys), but rather how he treats his sisters. I’ve actually NEVER dated a guy who didn’t have at least one sister, and now that I think about it, she/they was generally younger sisters. I guess I just feel like it’s more comparable because you can see if he takes up for her, communicates openly with her, shows her affection, and protects her, I feel like he’ll do the same with me (and I’m definitely more similar in his mind to his sis than his mom). Now of course there’s an age limit on this, in that really younger sisters don’t count (cuz of course you’re gonna do all that for a kid), but I really pay attention if he has a sister close to my age.
I guess if a guy doesn’t have sisters (or at least younger cousins that grew up in the same house or something), it’s sad to say, I rarely find myself attracted to these men cuz my radar has no detection power!!
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i love my mother with all my heart. she will be the most important woman in my life UNTIL the day i get married.
“At that point, the lucky lady has proven herself worthy of receiving the treatment similar to, but not greater than, that which I show my mother.”
slim, i can’t agree with you on this one. once i get married there will be no even treatment of my wife and mother. yes i will still love my mother with all my heart but my wife will then become THE most important woman in my life. hands down.
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LoudPen Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Okay. Tunde, I see you. Does your mama know that?
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am
lol @ “Does your mama know that”
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Tunde Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:40 am
i would hope so. when my mother got married my father became the most important man in her life. not my grandfather. and when my children get married i would hope they would follow suit. that’s the circle of life.
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LoudPen Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Well, I am glad that you have made that designation. Not that I was thinking of doing any differently when I *coughs breaks into hives* get married, but, seeing you write it made it more real.
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am
What a wise, wise man you are. It kills me when I see married men allowing their mother to dictate decisions in their marriage. Once you have a wife, the game changes—and the same goes for women and their parents.
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Tunde Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:43 am
exactly. i don’t know what these other dudes be on with that oedipus complex stuff. o_0 lol
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Peyso Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:08 am
those sound like fighting words between yo mama and yo SO
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NaijaSweetz Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
lol, they shouldn’t be. My mom would have a problem with my brothers if they were running back to her with things that were supposed to be discussed and resolved with their wives, or if they were trying to play mama’s boys. As far as she is concerned, her husband comes second only to God, and our respective spouses should follow that same ranking system. She takes the whole leaving one’s father’s house and becoming one with one’s spouse thing very seriously. I’m actually more of the mama’s child in this family. People mistake us for siblings or friends all the time.
In response to the original post:
People tend to water everything down overtime, so now the general interpretation is that the way a man treats his mother will be the way he will treat any woman who comes across his path. Perhaps I’m the one with the skewed interpretation, but that has never been my take on it. To a certain extent, it makes sense. The odds of a man treating women with respect increase if he has a loving relationship with his mother, but decrease if that relationship is tumultuous. Cool. Now, my belief is that the statement was originally meant for people who saw a potential for love & a long term gig. It’s supposed to be a window into how he may treat you when you get to that stage, or even at various stages along the journey. Slim, you kind of supported my theorized version of the statement. A man who is able to treat his mother like a queen will be more likely to lavish the same kind of love on his wife or serious g/f than a man who doesn’t so much as respect his mother. There are men out there who have every reason in the book to hate their mothers, but who still treat the latter with respect instead of spewing hate at every available opportunity. But at least, even if he did, there would be some kind of justification. Either which way, it’s a decent way of gauging what it purports to gauge. But now that people stay getting in and out of “relationships” will-nilly and “love” is one of the most abused words in the English language, I can see how the idea would seem ludicrous to most.
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Slim, this was an excellent post. I hate when my homegirls or women I know get all excited cause they’re going to meet their man’s mama, and then think seeing how he treats his mama will let them know what kind of man he is. That makes no sense.
As others have said, he has developed a relationship with his mama from birth and how that relationship plays out is between the two of them. That relationship began long before the woman and will continue long after her.
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I never thought to look at a man’s relationship with his mother as a way he would treat me, but I do think it an indicator (shouts to Ms Sunshine) of the type of man he is, period. And while I don’t immediately expect the same affection/treatment that a man gives his mother, I do immediately expect to be respected. I shouldn’t have to “earn” or “prove myself worthy” of any man’s respect. In essence, if a man doesn’t respect his mother, I don’t know that I could fathom his being able to respect me—regardless of the circumstance.
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Brookland's OWn Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
“And while I don’t immediately expect the same affection/treatment that a man gives his mother, I do immediately expect to be respected. I shouldn’t have to ‘earn’ or ‘prove myself worthy’ of any man’s respect.”
Now while I do agree w/you that all should be immediately respected, I do not believe that respect has to be maintained because you do have to ‘prove yourself worthy’ to keep that same respect level or raise it even higher.
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Nyela Goodness Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Oh I definitely agree that one’s respect is subject to being lost—especially when you find one who doesn’t even have respect for themself.
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How soon do you bring a woman to meet mom? I’m asking because in my experience, Ma and Pa Dukes have been sort of the “final frontier” for a g/f. My brother only brought one woman around the family, and 3 weeks after he did he let us know that he was planning to propose. Previous to her, the only girls I saw were ones that were creeping out the back door or skanking around the pool when the folks were out of town.
Women compare how you treat your mom to how you WILL treat them because they have (or hope to have) something in common: the title of “Woman in your Life”. Maybe your lady friend is hearing about how you treat your mom and sees your behavior as a positive sign for your future. Maybe she’s met your mother and seen it firsthand. If you’re bringing jumpoffs and “maybe’s” around your mom then you’re guilty of building false expectations, not the other way around. And if you’re Jekyll and Hydish enough that you worship your mother but treat other women like ho’s…..men have “absent daddy” issues too.
I agree that the “Mom Treatment” is not 100% accurate, but it is a valid indicator for the future. You put the relationship with mom next to a list of other indicators, like how this person treats wait staff, strangers, etc. to tell if you want to hitch yourself to this person. We all do it.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:11 am
“How soon do you bring a woman to meet mom?”
Good question. I’m actually in the process of drafting a post that dives into that topic. It’s a completely different beast in itself.
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My good friend was being very rude to his mother. His father scolded him about it. He said to his father “But I see you being rude to Mommy all the time”. His father replied “But you’ve never seen me being rude to my mother”
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I remember reading this one at Blogxilla! It always stuck in my head because it was a such a unique and valid perspective. It makes sense that, NO, your girl is not on the same level as your mother. Your post really had a lot of truth to it and it stuck with me after reading.
However, since your mama is the first lady in your life (not in all cases of course) if you’re not good to yo own mama, what makes a woman think you’d be good to her? Using your reasoning that yo mama is on a whole ‘nother level, then if she ain’t ish to you… what are other women?
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I tend to look for a man with a strong relationship with his mother I think primarily because of my relationship with mine. Me and that lady are tight…and honestly my whole family is one big disfunctional stew that sticks to your bones. I need someone who can meld into it and if you have a similiar bond with your parental units and to a lesser extent your family in general you and I may be compatible in the long run. I concur with folks who say looking at interactions between the potential SO and strangers do tell a lot. When/if I ever meet ya mama you probably on your Ps and Qs, hugging her all tight and ish, but its how you I saw you treat the waitress or watched u push pass that old lady in the street that will knock you out the box…regardless of how good you feel in it.
Additionally, If the guy has a kid..I think how he treats his child is a significant indicator of what type of person he is…If you can’t make time for your seed..how are you going to treat me..we not even blood related! I think i’m also probably sensitive to this coming from a single parent household..Deadbeat dad-ism is a deal breaker for me…I once had a dude tell me he didn’t know where in the country his 3 yr old daughter was..last conversation we had..but that’s for another post.
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ASmith Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Good points. I have a close (albeit dysfunctional) relationship with my extended fam as well and I’d think I’d need someone with a similar relationship who can understand why the family reunions and other gatherings are important to me.
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This is my first time commenting on a post. So here I go. I cosign 100%. A guy I dated for a you looked at the relationship I had with my brothers (I would cook for them and pretty much spoil them) and thought that i would do that for him immediately. Umm…lo siento…but you need to earn that type of love and respect from me. If you can care for me through thick and thin then will see but until them my brothers take precedent.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:58 am
ladycakes rhymes with babycakes. Either way, thanks for commenting and welcome to 3 Ways. I think you will enjoy the post I have planned for tomorrow as well.
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ladycakes Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Yeah my brother used to call me ladycakes to make me angry. I was a tomboy for a while but now I actually like the name.
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I think the relationship that a man has with his mother or in some cases female caregiver may not directly be related to how he will treat you, but it’s not something to disregard altogether. A man has essentially spent more time with this woman than any other woman on the planet so while the bond will not mirror your bond with the man, it definitely sets the stage for the quality of the bond to expect. I pay attention to the stories a man will tell me about his mother and his favorite qualities/personality traits about her because those are most likely the qualities that he looks for in a partner. I may not posses all the qualities of his mother nor do I want to but I want to know that she is not some overprotective, ready-with-a-hanky-incase-her-grown-baby starts to cry, insecure type of woman…because I am not that woman nor am I ready to play that type of role with no grown man.
So I’m on the fence..yes and no to analyzing a man’s relationship with mother dearest.
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I definitely see your rational. I think that the way a man treats his mother is not always a solid indicator because there are YEARS upon years of history and back story to. Only if you know and understand their relationship can you adequately determine how he may treat a women based of his attitudes towards his mother.
I will also say that if you gauge use his interaction with women in general to evaluate his level of respect towards them. That doesn’t have to be done specifically with his mother.
Suffice it to say, there’s not a single way to determine how a man will treat a women all the time without getting into the relationship. Everything else should be used as an indication, but not necessarily a strong one.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Thanks for the comment Stu. I see you on Twitter. Just followed back.
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I feel like its the same as a possible employer calling references.
Seeing a man’s dynamic with his mon is a way to gain insight into a man’s ability to love and respect a woman. it’s not 100% but it’s something.
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Y’know, I can see why a woman would look at my relationship with my mom for clues as to how I would act. I tend to see how a woman treats her father for clues to her personality.
I often observe to see if she runs to him all the time, is a real daddy’s girl or on the flip side, treats him like shit and is dismissive/disrespectful. It can speak volumes to how that woman is. Like if she lies to her father a lot, she may find it real easy to lie to me.
If she doesn’t know her father, I’m shit out of luck. But then again, that carries its own weight.
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I have 2 separate perspectives:
1. If a man’s main goal with a woman is to satisfy his need to cake on a regular basis, then his relationship with his Mom/Sisters is no indicator of how he will be in a relationship.
Case in point: My brother will disappear for months at a time so he can be cuddled up with the Boo-O-Moment. He will spends thousands on gifts, flowers, trips etc for Lady Love, but he won’t call, write, text or visit home until threatened with his life by my Moms.
2. Other another note, a dude can be a complete Momma’s Boy, but the way that he treats you can be a complete reflection of how much SHE likes you…
Case in point: I have known a dude my entire life. He was once dating a girl for over a year. Completely doting and enamoured. Well, when his Mom met his girlfriends family and decided that GF was not good enough for her Pumpkin, she went on a mission that cause Pumpkin to self-destruct his own relationship. Homegirl never saw it coming.
So… no… I would never assume that the way a dude treats his Mom would reflect on how he treats me.
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Great post Slim!
The word DYNAMIC screams at me as I read this post and the subsequent comments, because people (both men and women) tend to live out the relationship roles that they feel most comfortable in. If daddy was fucked up …then you MAY feel most comfortable playing out the wounded female role. If mom was distant and didn’t hug you enough than you MIGHT feel most comfortable being in a relationship with a crazy bitch that keeps you on an addictive cycle of highs and lows (just saying…)
So rather than whether dude answers the phone when mom calls, I think it’s more about HOW he answers the call. Does he roll his eyes and sigh before answering? Does he lie to her and tell her that he went to church last Sunday when you KNOW he was rolling an L with you butt ass naked in bed? Does he look at you with those big sad eyes and say that he needs to visit his mother more often, but never seems to make the trip. Does mom criticize relentlessly? Does he always leave a conversation with her in a bad mood?
These are the marks of a man with unresolved Mommy issues, and when PEOPLE have unresolved parental issues…they often look for ways to play them out (over and over again) until they’ve worked them out…at least that’s what I think.
Sorry for the long first comment… you guys gave me some food for thought.
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Slim Jackson Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
No such thing as a long first comment at 3 Ways. We’re glad you stopped by and shared your thoughts. Make sure you do so in the future!
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